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Rough starting on hot days ..I'm MEGA shat-off, PLEASE HELP! 

 

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 Post subject: Rough starting on hot days ..I'm MEGA shat-off, PLEASE HELP!
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:26 pm 
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Hey all,

This is about the 3rd time I've posted this ...but I've had a complete gutful..

I have had an ongoing starting issue with my EF on HOT DAYS when I've had AC on ...starts as rough as a bastard after being shut off & left for a while.

This whole starting issue is really starting to piss me off big time!

Had the car out today (30+ deg C), with AC on, my temp gauge started fluctuating between L up to R/M on the 'NORMAL' lettering on my temp gauge ...and I had the same f**k starting problem again!

I am really confused as follows:

Some guys on this site have suggested it's probably because my engine is running too hot, hence causing the vaporisation of fuel in the line after turn-off, due to the overall build-up of heat after engine is shut off...hence causing subsequent difficult starts.

They've suggested I replace my thermostat to one that's rated at 70-77 deg C, instead of the STD Ford one which is rated at 90+ deg C. This, they say, will bring the engine temp down & maintain a lower temp, which will possibly stop the vaporising after shut-off.

I've found a TRIDON Hi-flow thermostat, which is not only rated at 77 deg C, but apparently it also lets up to 30% more water flow too.

However, upon speaking to Ford, they told me NOT to use a lower rated thermostat, as this would cause the engine to run cooler, ultimately leading to a richer fuel mix via the ECU ...and they said the only way to sort this problem out was to get them to take a look at it = f**k HUGE bill!

Someone also told me that it could be my fuel pressure regulator, but I've had my regulator checked, and it was sitting at 270 kPa ...which I heard is normal pressure for an EF.

Someone else also suggested I get a Carbon Clean, which cleans the whole fuel system & valves etc. of carbon deposits, which could also be causing my engine to run inefficiently & hot.

I was considering changing the thermostat first, then getting a Carbon Clean before I even consider letting the f**k FRAUD boys take a look at it!

Confusing eh? ...WHAT DO YOU THINK I SHOULD DO?

Should I try the thermostat / Carbon clean, or bite the bullet & let those daylight extortionists FRAUD look at it?

Sorry about all the obscenities ...but I am REALLY confused & totally f**k off by it all...

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:25 pm 
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you could have a broken engine mount
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:34 pm 
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kenno wrote:
you could have a broken engine mount


What do you mean?

I did have to replace the LH side (or driver's side) engine mount a few months back (it had collapsed, causing vibration) ...but I think they used a SH one.

Why do you think it could be this? Very interesting...

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:39 pm 
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i know it doesnt help,but i hardly think breaking an engine mount would have anything to do with rough starting on hot days..

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 pm 
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mitchg911 wrote:
i know it doesnt help,but i hardly think breaking an engine mount would have anything to do with rough starting on hot days..


Yeah, can't quite figure that one out!

Not really getting any bites on this thread ...looks like I may have to go to FRAUD after all!

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:18 pm 
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yeah i had much the same things temp going up and down running ruff as guts when its a hot day mainly when it was working hard. not sure but i also think that mine was a b**ch to start on hot days 2, i replaced my thermostat still didnt fix it so we figured it was my head gasket, (i also was loosing like a litre of coolant every 6000 km) so i replaced that (it was blowing past a tiny bit ) put my old thermostat back in and its good as gold so ........ dont know if this helps but ....
i would say check for the tell tale signs of a blown head gasket not really what u would want to hear but ...
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:21 pm 
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jero wrote:
yeah i had much the same things temp going up and down running ruff as guts when its a hot day mainly when it was working hard. not sure but i also think that mine was a b**ch to start on hot days 2, i replaced my thermostat still didnt fix it so we figured it was my head gasket, (i also was loosing like a litre of coolant every 6000 km) so i replaced that (it was blowing past a tiny bit ) put my old thermostat back in and its good as gold so ........ dont know if this helps but ....
i would say check for the tell tale signs of a blown head gasket not really what u would want to hear but ...


Could be ...but I'm not losing any coolant, and my cooling system pressure checks fine!

I'm really stumped...

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:32 pm 
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Does it JUST run rough or does it backfire as well? Backfiring can be an indication of failing spark, basically your injectors are dumping fuel in the cylinders while the sparks are failing and when it finally does spark there is way too much fuel in there so bang! Just a different perspective on thought, as when spark components heat up they can start to fail, although i don't know what coil-packs are like on the efs for that kind of thing.

Also, i don't know what injectors are like when they get old for heat? You'de think if it was your injectors it would do it more often than just starting.

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:41 pm 
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im running one of those tridon 77 degree thermostats. im fine with it.

my car sits on the L on the freeway.. heavy driving in peak hour will see it get upto the R/M.

generally, the temp wont go below about 80 degrees at a minimum, in winter it might drop a bit lower? maybe switch back if its an issue. so it should be well outta warmup mode. and 15 degrees difference. f**k all i say. its in the normal range on the guage its all good ;)

as for taking it to ford. they only build the cars, its not like they actually know how to fix them!

cars generally do haev a harder time starting when its been hot and have been turned off. how are your injectors? i would be leaning towards them more than anything if its rough.

 

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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:05 am 
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Kingkezza wrote:
Does it JUST run rough or does it backfire as well? Backfiring can be an indication of failing spark, basically your injectors are dumping fuel in the cylinders while the sparks are failing and when it finally does spark there is way too much fuel in there so bang! Just a different perspective on thought, as when spark components heat up they can start to fail, although i don't know what coil-packs are like on the efs for that kind of thing.

Also, i don't know what injectors are like when they get old for heat? You'de think if it was your injectors it would do it more often than just starting.


It actually runs fine, no backfire, idles fine ...just sluggish on start up after engine warms up on hot days, particularly if I've had AC on.

Starts up fine cold, then I drive it for a while, get out for a few mins to go to shops etc, then when I jump back in to re-start it ...the starter motor is cranking, but the engine struggles to turn over, and when it does it's very sluggish for a few seconds then settles down fine!

I have heard that EF coil packs can be troublesome.

My mechanic reckons it's just a FORD thing ...I can't live with that, there must be a reason this is happening!

Problem is, I could change out every bloody thing under the hood without any guarantee that it would solve anything!

 

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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:13 am 
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Gaz wrote:
im running one of those tridon 77 degree thermostats. im fine with it.

my car sits on the L on the freeway.. heavy driving in peak hour will see it get upto the R/M.

generally, the temp wont go below about 80 degrees at a minimum, in winter it might drop a bit lower? maybe switch back if its an issue. so it should be well outta warmup mode. and 15 degrees difference. f**k all i say. its in the normal range on the guage its all good ;)

as for taking it to ford. they only build the cars, its not like they actually know how to fix them!

cars generally do haev a harder time starting when its been hot and have been turned off. how are your injectors? i would be leaning towards them more than anything if its rough.


Well, I haven't cleaned my injectors since I've had the car (yeah, I know), and god knows when they were last done (if at all) by the previous owner ...so I reckon a good Carbon Clean is a good place to start (cleans deposits off fuel system, valves & ports etc.) ...backed up with the 77 deg C Hiflow Thermostat.

Maybe it's just that my fuel system is clogged up with so much s**t...

 

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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:17 am 
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Have you had your mechanic connect your ecu up to a diagnostics computer? I guess it's going to have to be a hot day if you can get him to do it, but maybe one of your sensors a bit faulty/dirty, and because of this it's not compensating correctly for the true temperature of the engine. Maybe a MAP sensor, or the O2 sensor? I'd say that on start up your MAP sensor would be pretty important to know how much to open the throttle. Saing this, i'm not entirely sure if it will show up on a diagnostics machine, it may still give a reading, but perhaps it's just sending the ecu the wrong information like i said.

 

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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:22 am 
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markr154 wrote:
Well, I haven't cleaned my injectors since I've had the car (yeah, I know), and god knows when they were last done (if at all) by the previous owner ...so I reckon a good Carbon Clean is a good place to start (cleans deposits off fuel system, valves & ports etc.) ...backed up with the 77 deg C Hiflow Thermostat.

Maybe it's just that my fuel system is clogged up with so much s**t...


I honestly think that it's not likely to be something along the lines of having too much s**t in your fuel system, because surely that would show up all the time. As for the injectors, i'm not entirely sure how sensitive they are to heat but i'm sure a good carbon clean can't hurt, and while you're at it some injector cleaner. Just make sure you don't use that nasty red dot stuff, i don't know how the hell they are allowed to sell car products. Mind you if you're dumb enough to buy that s**t your car deserves to s**t itself!

 

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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:27 am 
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Kingkezza wrote:
Have you had your mechanic connect your ecu up to a diagnostics computer? I guess it's going to have to be a hot day if you can get him to do it, but maybe one of your sensors a bit faulty/dirty, and because of this it's not compensating correctly for the true temperature of the engine. Maybe a MAP sensor, or the O2 sensor? I'd say that on start up your MAP sensor would be pretty important to know how much to open the throttle. Saing this, i'm not entirely sure if it will show up on a diagnostics machine, it may still give a reading, but perhaps it's just sending the ecu the wrong information like i said.


Could be, will have to time it for a hot day ...maybe get him to fit the Tridon thermostat at the same time, then head down to Malaga for the Carbon Clean (which wouldn't hurt anyway).

Bummer really, because I had budgeted to get an RPD Stage 2 cam this month ...no point until I get this sorted!

 

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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:28 am 
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don't go to fraud mark! they'll just rip you off even more! :roll:

 

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