I wouldn't.. if it broke again it'd be floating around the chain.

This happened to me YESTERDAY while doing the head gasket:



Goddamn thins...considered aralditing it back, maybe gluing a piece of reinforcing metal to the back...but if it comes off, that could be byebye engine.

So looks like I'll be pulling that timing cover off too. Does the sump really have to be dropped?

Any idea how much Fraud steal from you for a new guide?

This is EXACTLY the same as what the timing guide looks like in my old EF engine and without knowing it until I pulled the head off recently I did about 10,000km with the timing guide in that state.

It is sweet, as it is held in place by the timing cover on the passenger side anyway... (Don't sue me if it isn't sweet after all...)

This is EXACTLY the same as what the timing guide looks like in my old EF engine and without knowing it until I pulled the head off recently I did about 10,000km with the timing guide in that state.

It is sweet, as it is held in place by the timing cover on the passenger side anyway... (Don't sue me if it isn't sweet after all...)

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The bottom timing guide is impossible to get back in (with my limited experience) without dropping sump. You'll get a new semi-circle of rubber with a replacement timing cover gasket set and recommend using a dob of gasket maker (silicon, RTV what have you) in the corners.

don't sweat it... mine looks exactly like that photo too... the guy who had it before me had obviously not taken the bolt out of the head and snapped it cos it had snapped years before and the top bit was missing completely.

The guide still works, so I didn't worry about it.. and I don't have any problems... the guide still exists and supports in the actual required areas and that's all that really matters.

What about the rust? will the motor be alright, or is the rust too bad?

Yea...not sure...I'll have a closer look tomorrow, see how much play there is in the guide without the top part. Might look ito drilling a couple of holes in each piece and inserting dowels (thin nails or similar) into the holes and araldite. Replacing it will be a LAST resort.

They only times I have seen a broken top guide was not being careful in taking the head off.
I haven't seen one however, like the one where just the very tip has broken off.....that is odd.

fiend, That is the pic that tells the horror story it is!!

the_scotsman, you might get away with it, but best to see reply's from anyone else who's had it snap at that high. Mine was snapped about an inch up from the block.

Me and a mate have just rebuilt the timing case, and yeah it's a b**ch first time round anyway. Don't worry if some hero's tell you otherwise. Like I said, done it, but it took longer than we hoped, part of the reason is:

you end up spraying a lot of degreaser on parts so you can clean and dry and seal them properly;
the lower r/h/s 3" guide in that cut-away pic above hits the chain when you go to fit the timing case with that little guide attached to the inner of the timing case (use a stretched out coathanger ); and finally,
the lower lip of the timing case that mates against with the sump has 2x or 3x 4mm grooves to fit into, so you must lower the sump even if the head is off to allow the timing case and sump to fit together, and to also avoid knocking the lower 3" guide off;
plus you try not to pull the sump completely off the block cuz you don't wanna fk the seal too bad - cuz that's another story (engine or k-frame out)...

After doing it once, as with most who give it a go will agree, the next time you do a job like this you take about a 1/3 the time next go. PLUS you've learnt something about timing case a**'y, and you've rebuilt your top end. Which is pretty cool.

Uhm - I don't think it's that much of a horror story really mate! Pulling the engine half a foot sky wards is probably the best answer to avoid all the re-sealing issues you really do need to drop the sump a reasonable way at the front. Pulling an engine out and operating on it whilst it's hanging off a hoist is about the only way I'd call this job "easy". With the engine in the car it would be a right royal b**ch of a thing.

HOWEVER ---
If you leave the top little bit of broken guide piece on the garage floor and simply put your head back on you should be pretty sweet. As me and others have discovered - you can simply run the car for years without that guide being attached as it wedges itself into the timing cover external shape quite nicely (should be obviously in the picture I provided) and doesn't ever force itself around the aux sprocket or other internal organs of engine.

If I wasn't clear enough - The little guide at the bottom which sits between crank and the aux sprockets slots into the timing cover, but when it's in position it makes it impossible to put the timing cover onto the front of the engine as it will try to take the corner off the sump (as per picture).

Tell you what, I'm going to repeat the picture here...


As you can see, the bulge out the back of the chain guide (on right of picture) actually sits quite snugly into the external shape of the timing cover and once the engine has done a few revolutions like this that chain has made a couple of deeper grooves in the guides face and, hey presto, everything should work fine for another million miles.

A lot of patience, a little degreaser, a good sharp razor blade or two, and some meths (in that order) are required if you're going to put the timing cover back on without creating oil leaks.

Since you have the head off already, I would really lean towards pulling the whole timing cover thing off myself and replacing the O ring around the chain tensioner whilst you're at it.

All these parts are common oil leak spots... Pay particular attention to making sure the metal surfaces are clean enough so that when you wipe them with a meths rag NO MORE DIRT COMES OFF! Put a good quality "gasket maker" silicon in the sharp corners of the mating surfaces (ie - where head hits block and timing cover and where sump joins block and timing cover).

If you're pulling the whole engine out, a new timing cover gasket set should be around $60 and include the timing cover gasket, a main front seal, a couple of O rings, an extruded rubber section for between the head and the timing cover and a half circle of extruded rubber to replace the front bit of the sump seal (use at your discretion -- I used the original sump rubber seal and no leaks after 2000km, fingers crossed for the next 50,000) . The piece of rubber between head and timing cover is the same bit of rubber as supplied with your new AU head gasket set.

Changing the front seal is much easier with the timing cover removed by the way!

Once again, if the motor is out, you should probably have a new rear seal handy and ready to install at the same time and remember some blobs of silicon in the sharp corners below this seal when doing the sump back up!

Ho hum.

Once you've replaced all that, you should have an Inline Six that leaks no oil what-so-ever and will provide you with a nice clean engine bay for years to come...

From what I've seen of my old 350,000 donk, and about 90% of the sixes out at the wreckers - If the opportunity presents itself to give the motor this treatment you should jump on it!

Make sure to use AU head gasket and NEW bolts.


Cheers for now, good luck with both your engines guys. It's not that tricky, but do spend at least a few hours cleaning all the mating surfaces between block / head / timing cover and sump.

A mechanic in the workshop probably wouldn't spend hours and hours cleaning all the surfaces. I did. I spent a lot longer than two hours. I spent a whole day on it until I could wipe all the surfaces with a meths soaked rag and get no black colour on the rag at all. Why? Because after all that effort of pulling everything apart I bloody well refuse to repeat the exercise for as long as possible.

By giving the gaskets, seals and surfaces the best attention possible it should mean they seal properly and there will be no need to look at those areas for another couple of hundred thousand klicks.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Well...I thought about it...then realised I honestly could not be f**k pulling the timing cover etc off, so I repaired the broken guide, and it's pretty rock solid.

Just clean up both parts, drilled 3 holes in each part and inserted 3 metal "dowels" and fixed them all together with Araldite.



Job done

at least you guys' timing covers were intact...

this is mine when we pulled it off after the aux shaft shat itself.

 

 

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good job scotsman. drill bits would make alright dowels lol

Cheers...

yea they were something I considered lol...in the end I used the "pins" from rivets...just used the rivet gun to get the pin off the rivet...et voila

I would never have put metal dowels in there..

How will that Araldite be after 8 months of being soaked in boiling oil?

If it breaks up.. the dowels will be floating around your engine... might get caught in a chain or the aux sprocket etc etc....