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THE END OF FILTER ARGUMENTS! 

 

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Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 7:35 pm 
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XR~ADZ wrote:
^^voxace - i couldnt have put it better myself :)


Ha ha i have your signature in sticker form in my XR lol!

Umm ne way i live in a fairly clean place, it never gets dusty etc, i clean my K&N filter reguarly and the air box is always spotless, the oil from the K&N filter traps most dirt and dust ne way... I cant see ne reall problem in having one.

I noticed a difference when combined with the AU Tickford Snorkle.......... Guess every car reacts differently. :?

 

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Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 7:45 pm 
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TwinturboBMX wrote:
I'm pretty sure this was posted on another site, or even here.
With the k&n filter in that test they tested a finer dust/sand compared to the paper filter where they used a a*** sand. So really they bodge it up.
Ohh well i'm confused as what to do now, i'm getting the XH snorkel tomorrow, but dunno if i should pick up a K&N aswell???????????


Dude put the XH Snorkel on and take the car for a drive.
Then take the airfilter out and go for a drive again. See if you can notice the difference. That'll give you a 'rough' idea on what it might feel like.

If you feel the difference in power warrants spending over a hundred dollars, then so be it.

BTW, you'll probly get all oily s**t all through your intake too with the K&N :)

 

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Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 8:15 pm 
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There's been evidence against these hi flow filters for yonks. But if you talk to other people, you'll also find evidence for them. Amazing how that works!

 

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Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:56 pm 
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Voxace $100 for a mod you cant feel the power difference, take in the fact that this filter is reusable the paper one is not. I'm a ford fan I only use Motorcraft products, I'm a chev fan I only use AC Delco products, I'm a chrysler fan I only run a Carter not a Holley. The thing I noticed from this report was the fact they were pushing the factory product. Who sponsered this bet GM had something to do with it. I thought I would use only factory parts on my EF Fairmont so I brought a set of Ford spark plugs with Denso marked on them. I work for a company that is part of Denso thought they made good products too. The NGKs that were in it never missed a beat but had been in for a while so I replaced them with the ford/denso plugs and all of a sudden it developed a miss. Took the car to ford who were useless, picked it up and got talking to guy at the counter, told him what had happened. I said I had never had a bad plug and he told me they had and then recommended Bosch plugs which I had always used before I started going all ford. Put the NGKs back in and all of a sudden the miss was gone. So much for the factory product, back to the filter I have a K'N filter and hav'nt seen any dust/dirt on the motor side of the filter. So I'll treat this report with the respect it deserves in the toilet. :evil: :evil: :wink:
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 8:08 pm 
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Meh, even if it doesn't let the dust/particles through I've seen a lot of cases where the filter oil is dragged all through the intake causing problems.

Yes, it may have it's cost advantages, being re-usable, but that's really only if you plan on keeping the car for well over a hundred thousand km.

Doesn't bother me if if the test is real or not, I just still fail to see the advantages.

BTW, I'm pretty sure there are other tests citing similar results.

 

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Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 8:52 pm 
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Yeah, like someone else said, I have to wonder about the test. In the final results it says '(fine dust)' under the AFE and K&N filters.

 

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Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:01 am 
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Well I've heard opinions both ways about K&n filters etc. I run one at the moment. I dunno what the true story is but I do think some peoples' opinions may be affected by the fact they don't understand how to maintain oil-based filters properly.

One thing that keeps coming to mind though is why do all the off-road racers use K&N or UniFilter etc. And they are sitting totally exposed to all the dust they cop too - no one needs better dust filtration than those guys so I tend to look at what they use as a good guide.

Who knows though (?).

Steve.
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:43 pm 
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Steve_T wrote:
Well I've heard opinions both ways about K&n filters etc. I run one at the moment. I dunno what the true story is but I do think some peoples' opinions may be affected by the fact they don't understand how to maintain oil-based filters properly.

One thing that keeps coming to mind though is why do all the off-road racers use K&N or UniFilter etc. And they are sitting totally exposed to all the dust they cop too - no one needs better dust filtration than those guys so I tend to look at what they use as a good guide.

Who knows though (?).

Steve.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What Steve said ... it always pays to see what the hard-core off-road guys use ... as they need to protect their engines more than use road-users do.

I read the off 4WD mag as mates are into it .. and it can be an interesting read into the tests they do for filters and aftermarket engine components ... they do testing in conditions that are much tougher than ours.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:22 pm 
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Voxace
Oil dragged through intake causing problems, what problems if your car uses engine oil, any amount, it would be more than that of the K,N filter even if you drenched it in oil. Heaps of cars use a bit of oil without any real adverse effects.

Cost advantage, so what if someone wants to keep a car for over 100000kms your supposed to change your filter every 10000kms, more if you live in a dusty area. So maybe there mighten be a huge cost advantage, think of the enviromental issues less rubbish, less raw material to make the K,N filter, paper filters more trees cut down.

The test real or not you say you dont care that just goes to show you have a blind bias against the K,N filter

Pretty sure there are other tests out there that will show similar yeah there probably are from competitors.

I dont think the K,N filter is the best thing since sliced bread but people bagging something without any real facts or just something that they have read., anyone can write lies or what they want you to beleive. Just look at the Herald Sun in Melbourne.

Last edited by bracks on Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:33 pm 
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There are none so blind as those who chose not to see :shock:
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:10 pm 
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bracks said "I have a K'N filter and hav'nt seen any dust/dirt on the motor side of the filter. So I'll treat this report with the respect it deserves in the toilet"

well were the hell do you think it is idiot,,it's gone through the motor and out the exhaust,,bloody hell you don't even understand the basics of induction and exhaust.

and how do they get a high flowing filter with finer filter materials,,as i see it higher flowing means less filtration,,basicly the more filtration you want the finer the material has to be,,of you want more air flow then the material must be courser.

and yes the k&n filters will leave the bottom of your intake manifold covered in oil,,seen heaps at the wreckers over time.

as has been said before "people will only believe what they want to believe"

and never is one so blind that they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel,unless they are the sheep of society and will follow blindly.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:21 pm 
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Bracks mate, wasn't bagging them just stating my opinion.

And by the way, I wasn't talking about oil in the engine, I was talking about in the intake. It gums everything up, including sensors. BA's have had problems idling just because of the oil dragged through naturally by the crankcase breathing system - that filter s**t can't help.

And if you want to talk about oil during combustion, then yes its also bad - leaves deposits and reduces the octane rating of the fuel. I doubt that the amount that gets through causes any problems there though.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:12 pm 
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LOL :D Should have called this thread "THE START OF FILTER ARGUMENTS!"

But the report seams pretty genuine and independent. The main result is that there is a direct correlation between filtering efficiency and flow rate.

Even if a K&N lets through more dirt it may never really be a problem for 90% of ppl. But personally I don't like the idea of ANY more dirt getting into my engine.

I think most of those off road guys are hoodwinked/Sponsored by the K&N marketing. Also an off -road racing engine has a pretty short service life and very frequent oil changes.

I tried what voxace did and didn't notice any improvement either. Throttle response is a bit of an illusion anyway.
There is less restriction in the intake before the throttle you push your foot down less on the accellerator to get the same accelleration, but your used to pushing it down a certain distance so the car feels 'more responsive' for the same input. After a while you re-learn where you put your foot and you don't notice it anymore.

Anyway my 2C

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:05 pm 
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pepsimax wrote:
bracks said "I have a K'N filter and hav'nt seen any dust/dirt on the motor side of the filter. So I'll treat this report with the respect it deserves in the toilet"

well were the hell do you think it is idiot,,it's gone through the motor and out the exhaust,,bloody hell you don't even understand the basics of induction and exhaust.

and how do they get a high flowing filter with finer filter materials,,as i see it higher flowing means less filtration,,basicly the more filtration you want the finer the material has to be,,of you want more air flow then the material must be courser.

and yes the k&n filters will leave the bottom of your intake manifold covered in oil,,seen heaps at the wreckers over time.

as has been said before "people will only believe what they want to believe"

and never is one so blind that they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel,unless they are the sheep of society and will follow blindly.


So what your saying pepsimax is that all dirt that goes past the filter goes straight into the motor and out the exhaust. Phew I thought that cloud of smoke was oil or maybe the motor was running too rich, thanks for enlightening me now I know what it is IT'S DUST! Look at an exhaust fan in your bathroom for example it sucks up air into your ceiling space. Dust gets caught on the fan cover and it also gets caught on the blades, motor and the ceiling side area of the fan. If the filter is allowing dust through into the motor there would have to be some type of dust residue on the other side of the filter. Hey you've seen oil and fuel residue in the runners of an intake manifold at the wreckers heaps of times I'm sure. In a longer air intake runner (EF six) there would have to be some type of residue surely unless your motor sucks that well it pulls everything in it's path into the motor.

You say I dont understand the basics of induction and exhaust, your next comment makes it look like you dont. Do you know how the K,N filter is supposed to work! The filter material is course to allow for high air flow and is covered in a very light coat of oil why because dust sticks to oil. I imagine what happened to you was you dropped your K,N filter into a huge bucket of oil then stuck it straight back into the air cleaner and then blamed the filter for your problems.

And lastly pepsimax I would imagine from the way your comment was written that the way you get people to believe you is to yell, swear and make derogatory comments in a way as to hide the truth. I believe you would be one of those people who believes your right and everybody else is wrong. Well anyway I'm off to have a coke
BAA BAA BAA BAA BAA
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Last edited by bracks on Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:12 pm 
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:shock: Oops forgot one thing in relation to its performace capacity something like this is never going to give you a huge power increase. Say it gives you 5 horsepower tell me who could possibly feel that extra horsepower by taking it for a quick spin. :D
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