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Timing Tensioner Troubles. 

 

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 Post subject: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:00 pm 
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So ive been changing the headgasket on my EF XR6, got everything done, now upto the Timing Tensioner bit.
When i put the Tensioner into the locked position, is the whole unit meant to be inside the Piston? Or is the Spring Sleeve meant to Be sticking out of the piston a bit. Like in this picture?
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/ ... dstate.jpg

What is the locked position?

When i insert it, i position the Tensioner onto the Chain Guides Gaps. When the tensioners in, in the "locked" state, i screw the Retainer in without the Retainer Plug.

Do i screw the Retainer in all the way at this point?

After the Retainer is in this is where i use the allen key to turn the Tensioner. When i turn the Tensioner, is the spring meant to be extended?

This is were i am stuck. Ive already tried this and it didnt feel right as the chain got really tight when i tried putting the Retainer Plug back on so i took it back off again. I dont want to be doing things which i dont have to because of stupid s**t that went wrong like this.
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:07 pm 
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yes the timing chain tensioner is meant to sit in as per the pic.

You can slide the piston in first and make sure that it sits correctly. The guide has to sit in the groove properly...you may have wiggle it a bit. When you put the retainer back on, yes it has to be on tight and proper. The tensioner assembly should be sort of loose in there and tighten up as the spring extends, shouldn't be tight when you put the tensioner on.

If it is tight, I think the piston may not be seated right. The grooves run in the vertical just in case it is sitting in the horizontal.

Besides that everything you did was right...

 

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EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:16 pm 
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it gets really tight when the spring extends and i start screwing the Retainer Plug back in. Its just so tight that it feels like i might break the guide or something. Is that how its supposed to be?

Quote:
yes the timing chain tensioner is meant to sit in as per the pic.


is it meant to sit like that when im inserting it or is that how its meant to be in its final position?
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:41 pm 
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in that pic the tensioner is extended to its tensioned position.
you need to push the narrow end in while rotating it clockwise untill it locks in..

then you fit it to the engine, do up the retainer.. then release the tensioner with a 3mm allen key with a 10mm tube over the allen key to push the tensioner while turning anti clockwise to put tension on the chain...
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:33 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
in that pic the tensioner is extended to its tensioned position.
you need to push the narrow end in while rotating it clockwise untill it locks in..

then you fit it to the engine, do up the retainer.. then release the tensioner with a 3mm allen key with a 10mm tube over the allen key to push the tensioner while turning anti clockwise to put tension on the chain...


Hmmm, I'm sure the image shows it's in the locked position, not the tensioned position. But then again I haven't looked at it in a long time and I may have even linked it to the wrong picture...either that or I hadn't locked it properly in the image I had taken.

But either way, the sleeve should lock onto the piston so that the spring is contained in the piston without flying out and then inserted into the tensioner shaft. After that do as troyman says.

 

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phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:47 am 
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theres 3 positions i can put the tensioner in. One, the whole sleeve and the spring and whatnot, is locked inside the piston all the way. Two, like in the picture. Three, with everything extended, as in, spring pushing the Piston onto the Chain Guide instead of being locked in, in anyway onto the sleeve.

So what should it be like when i first insert it? and what should it be like when its in its final position?

Im just having abit of trouble understanding whats locked whats extended whats what!!

Why does it need a tube over the allen key? Why do i need to push the tensioner while turning it? doesnt it push onto the chain guide from the retainer plug anyway?
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:32 am 
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it needs to be in this position when putting it in...
Attachment:
DSC01318.JPG
DSC01318.JPG [ 38.9 KiB | Viewed 43 times ]


then once fitted you need something like this to release the spring, pushing in slightly and turning it so it can extend and hold tension on the cam chain guide. the tube pushes against the inner piston allowing it to turn easier...
Attachment:
DSC01316.JPG
DSC01316.JPG [ 43.82 KiB | Viewed 32 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:42 am 
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thanks troyman! got it going, but you dont need a tube at all for this. just thought id make that clear, nearly all the posts ive read on the tensioner say that you do.
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:22 am 
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I stand corrected and good to see you got it back together dogantx3

 

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phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:46 am 
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dogantx3 wrote:
thanks troyman! got it going, but you dont need a tube at all for this. just thought id make that clear, nearly all the posts ive read on the tensioner say that you do.


ive done it many many times and probably 7 out of 10 times ive needed the tube to re set it, but in all cases its used when releasing the tension. that way the tensioner does not need to be removed from the engine...

good to see its all back together...
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:46 am 
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correct, you dont need to push on it when refitting it & putting tension back on chain, only when you lock it up for removal or releasing tension off the chain
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:57 am 
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Hi all,

Sorry to resurrect a really old thread. but this one is the closest of all the searches I've found to asking what I'd like to ask.

When the tensioner is in its fully extended position, pushing on the guide/chain as it should be when driving.. it is no longer held together at all by the little lock pins on the piston right??

What I mean is, when you are trying to get it all in, you lock it up like this:
Image

Then you use the allen key (I found the outside of a fat BIC pen fits pretty good.) to extend it to this position:
Image

And finally you go a click past that and it unlocks the whole thing so the spring is fully released from the piston and the whole thing would be in multiple pieces if it wasn't wedged between the guild and the retainer.. This is the correct position for the running motor?

My problem is that the above is the point I did mine to, the two pins in the piston are not locked into the spring retainer at all... (I think)

It is this note from Troyman that has me concerned.:

TROYMAN wrote:
in that pic the tensioner is extended to its tensioned position.
you need to push the narrow end in while rotating it clockwise untill it locks in..

then you fit it to the engine, do up the retainer.. then release the tensioner with a 3mm allen key with a 10mm tube over the allen key to push the tensioner while turning anti clockwise to put tension on the chain...


I did not think that this:
Image

Is fully released.. I thought it was the last stage before being released..

I just put this engine together, If I did it wrong and the tensioner is pushing too hard on the chain I do not want to bugger the engine so I'd like to know about it now.

I did check after I did it, and I could push the guide back and forward about a centremeter with a screwdriver.. it was firmly spring loaded.. but it did move back and forth easily enough so I thought I must have it right.. it didn't seem like a huge amount of movement, but the chain and guides are all new so I expected it to be less than before.

Can anyone clarify to me that if you fully release the tensioner as it should be in a running engine.. would the spring and piston be completely unlocked and separate, if you were to unscrew the big round retainer that looks like an angle grinder disk nut, or would they still be locked together as they appear in the photo closes to this paragraph above? I've just read a dozen threads about it and it still isn't entirely clear.

This new engine is in as new condition.. I'd hate to have the chain too tight and naff up the aux shaft and have to throw it away. (How does it get to tight for that to happen? What tensioner position causes the chain to over be so tight that it kills the AUX shaft?)

cheers

Frank
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:18 am 
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the tensioner should only be released to the extended position,
not the extra click where it would come apart,
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:39 am 
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Bummer.. guess ill be pulling that out again this weekend..
Thank-you Troyman... appreciated.
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 Post subject: Re: Timing Tensioner Troubles.
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:05 pm 
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I didn't think it should be able to be expanded far enough in situ to come fully disengaged??

In fact with my tensioner I not only unlock it but keep going until the pins contact the scalloped side and gently "click" into the next scollop to cause pretension. Works fine.

I don't know whether those scollops are there to limit how far the tensioner can be "backlashed" or whether they're specifically there for pretensioning. Mechanically they make sense for pretensioning.

And for what it's worth I've run an I6 happily for more than a year with just the plunger and spring - ie. the sleeve was busted (mekanix had fitted it wrong) - so plunger into hole, spring into hole, retainer wound in - compressing spring as it went, plug into retainer - vroom vroom.

 

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