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torque and power 

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:40 pm 
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You are right stockstandard no doubt.!!!

The info given said that torque was identical. If the i6 had more power their would be more available torque and hence it should beat the v8

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:41 pm 
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if power is so meaningless then why does every car manufacturer and engine builder quote it?

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:43 pm 
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South wrote:
No there not, Ive given figures saying that each one at the same rpm produces the same HP, whos to say that the I6 doesnt go on to make another 200hp whilst the V8 is going to drop off to 400hp at redline?

HP is a mathematical calculation... It is meaningless... The engine capacity, its torque curve, the engines efficiency, the ratios, the convertor, the weight etc etc... It all plays a role on the street...


The point is that you failed to mention peak horsepower at which rpm.In the case that all was the same they wold cross the line at the same time.

What is the point of a trick question.I ahvent even downed a beer yet so that I can find this funny

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:58 pm 
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stockstandard wrote:
if power is so meaningless then why does every car manufacturer and engine builder quote it?


cos it sells

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:11 am 
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ok, if I said I have a 320NM engine, and some other guy has 325NM, you cant say which one has better performance. If you say one has 200kw and the other 160, then you do. This is of course assuming that the cars are the same weight.

Torque tells you only how hard the car accelerates. Hard acceleration isnt much good if you have to change gears quickly (as I pointed out before, changing gears lowers the torque applied to the wheels by a large amount). Power also includes an rpm component, so a high power car can generally hold a gear longer, and therefore accellerate for longer in lower gears making the car faster even though it has less torque.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:11 am 
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You are basing your statements on assumptions...

If I were to build a vehicle assuming it worked, then you know its going to turn out rubbish. Cold hard facts are required to come up with the conclusions that you have.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:19 am 
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Guys....t is a fact that more horsepower is a direct result of torque per rpm. So even though peak torque is at say 4000 rpm a bigger peak power figure is indicitave of the torque created at that rpm.

So for example if my car has 400nm at 3700 rpm..ok...and puts out 100 rwkws....then if the torque remains the same.... peak horsepower actually indicates the amount torque after peak torque rpm is reached!!!

So the torque remains higher with bigger kw after peak torque has occured!!

So bigger power means more torque easy!!

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:22 am 
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huh? More torque = taller diff ratio... Less torque = shorter diff ratio... which one has to change first?

*smakes head*

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:23 am 
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USELESS wrote:
You are right stockstandard no doubt.!!!

The info given said that torque was identical. If the i6 had more power their would be more available torque and hence it should beat the v8



as much as i hate south . you need to re-read what he said.
he says both have the same gear ratios
he then says torque and power figures are rear wheel
and then both engines are 100% efficient


the reason there is no answer to his question is no one knows the size of the engines.

if they are both the same size and 100% efficient then the power curve and hence torque curve will be the same
but no where does he state they are the same size.


there are just to many variables to take into account.

converter stall speed is a big player too. if one car has a stall of 1200rpm and the other at 2500rpm they will both leave the line differently

you just cannot answer a question like that.

if he posted up 2 dyno graphs and said both engine are in identical cars wich one will run a 1/4 mile aster you could answer it.

now go get your hecs fees back

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:27 am 
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South wrote:
You are basing your statements on assumptions...

If I were to build a vehicle assuming it worked, then you know its going to turn out rubbish. Cold hard facts are required to come up with the conclusions that you have.


Certain assumptions have been made, like we are talking about similar power levels. Things break down when cars have radically different power curves (i.e forced induction).

Think of it this way. A JMM dev 5 kit produces more power because it allows the engine to breath better, which in turn allows it to maintain torque at higher rpm, which means you can drive faster for longer in each gear. Compare that to say putting in a torque cam designed for towing. The towing cam will make more torque, but far less power. Now what happens if we lined these cars up on the drag strip

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:28 am 
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USELESS wrote:
Guys....t is a fact that more horsepower is a direct result of torque per rpm. So even though peak torque is at say 4000 rpm a bigger peak power figure is indicitave of the torque created at that rpm.

So for example if my car has 400nm at 3700 rpm..ok...and puts out 100 rwkws....then if the torque remains the same.... peak horsepower actually indicates the amount torque after peak torque rpm is reached!!!

So the torque remains higher with bigger kw after peak torque has occured!!

So bigger power means more torque easy!!


For f**k Sake! Power is a mathematical calculation, its a byproduct...

More torque + more revs = the calculation
What usually makes more torque, a larger capacity more efficient engine OR Forced induction, which is now another external factor to this argument...

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:30 am 
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South wrote:
huh? More torque = taller diff ratio... Less torque = shorter diff ratio... which one has to change first?

*smakes head*


OK, that fixes the shifting problem, but remember, torque is multiplied by gear ratios, so the engine producing less torque now get more at the wheels, and the torquey engine has its torque cut back...

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:33 am 
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South wrote:
For f**k Sake! Power is a mathematical calculation, its a byproduct...

More torque + more revs = the calculation
What usually makes more torque, a larger capacity more efficient engine OR Forced induction, which is now another external factor to this argument...


hate to say, but torque is a mathematical equation as well

Torque = force * distance

which is the force applied during the downstroke of the piston * the distance between the center of crank rotation and the con-rod...

ITS ALL MATHS.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:39 am 
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this is entertaining me to no end.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:43 am 
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Ahhh but you can physically measure torque, you can only mathematically calculate power...

Dont try and make excuses in regards to your gear ratios slip up...

 

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