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Worsening self loathing and hatred 

 

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 Post subject: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:44 am 
Parts Gopher
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Location: Newcastle
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Ever since getting the XH Back from the head gasket reco. SEVERAL things are seriously wrong. 1. It now blows massive amounts of smoke on start up. Much worse than before. 2. ITs supercharged. Oh Sorry I looked for the supercharger but couldnt find it. Its just a supercharger whine. Im told by the mechanic. Its one of the ancilleries. So I pulled the belt off. Its still supercharged. Im told by the mechanic. Its the oil rings.. A vacuum forms in the cooling process, creating a vacuum, sucking oil into the cylinders... Soon as though its a fairmont ghia van it has the automatic cam dis-engagement option on shut down. THat way ALL valves are closed creating this vacuum. Oh And its been there for a week, so as he can do "Tests". 1. It never used oil before. 2. The supercharger whine is new". 3. ALL valves can never be closed at once. Monday. If I dont get the "I agree with you tottally we are soucing another head". Im taking the car. My old head, and its hello panadeine forte. If ya want something done right. DO IT YOURSELF brothers and sisters. Comments PLEASE and has anybody dealt with this Aussie heads in melbourne before. Im in Newcastle, this was an expensive, exchange LPG Head. EXTREMELY p****d OFF. Help Suggestions????
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:05 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Good luck.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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If you know how to always do it yourself.
Is it actually supercharged?
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:20 pm 
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uniacidz wrote:
Power steering pump or a pulley

Mine had supercharger noise, changed to new pump and unfortunately it's gone


He took the serp belt off and said it was still making the supercharge whine.

Could be auxiliary shaft on it's way out? Or timing chain not set right causing timing chain to rub somewhere?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:25 pm 
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supercharger whine sound after removing the head can be
to much tension on cam chain...
how was the tensioner set?
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:25 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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TROYMAN wrote:
supercharger whine sound after removing the head can be
to much tension on cam chain...
how was the tensioner set?


Dazmonster thinks it the cam bearings, that why he wants the head replaced.

He hasn't open my reply to his PM yet, but my guess is he won't like it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:34 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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tickford_6 wrote:
TROYMAN wrote:
supercharger whine sound after removing the head can be
to much tension on cam chain...
how was the tensioner set?


Dazmonster thinks it the cam bearings, that why he wants the head replaced.

He hasn't open my reply to his PM yet, but my guess is he won't like it.

Did you do the job?
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:46 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
TROYMAN wrote:
supercharger whine sound after removing the head can be
to much tension on cam chain...
how was the tensioner set?


Dazmonster thinks it the cam bearings, that why he wants the head replaced.

He hasn't open my reply to his PM yet, but my guess is he won't like it.


he will be shocked to find they dont run cam bearings...

and wtf is automatic cam dis-engagement option on shut down???? :lol: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:46 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Pakrat wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
TROYMAN wrote:
supercharger whine sound after removing the head can be
to much tension on cam chain...
how was the tensioner set?


Dazmonster thinks it the cam bearings, that why he wants the head replaced.

He hasn't open my reply to his PM yet, but my guess is he won't like it.

Did you do the job?



My arms don't reach from north QLD to Newcastle.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Was a bit confused as to why you'd write him a pm he wont be happy about if you didn't have anything to do with the job.
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:43 am 
Parts Gopher
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Ok My apoligies to everybody. My crankyness with this whole episode is due to several things. No 1 Being I booked the car in 3 weeks prior. Ordered all the parts and didnt do it myself because of bussines (time) contraints. The head was a grand or so, as its an LPG specific head. Firstly background. The car was fine. Then converted to LPG. appparently its not uncommon for this to cause stem seal problems. Which in due course developed. Not savage but annoying. It was also losing about a tablespoo of coolant each day on driveway. So I think do it righty get the head done. So No 1. After a 1 day promise in and out, lunchtime day 2 I start and help put the thing back together. Busy workshop... I know the guy. Breaks a thremostat housing. On closer inspection great hunk of weld hanging from machined face. They file this off. Im a litle cheesed off but hey !. Start it up, and it is whining bad. I turn it off immediatly. Whipped cream in sump. With this I go home disgusted. Calls me next day car fine. Get in, supercharger whine. He says drive it itl be fine. Next day the small amount of smoke on start up, is now a james bond car... U cant seee behind it for smoke. The supercharger whine is worse. I Call him he says on cooling a vaccuum is being created sucking oil up through the oil ring through the compression ring into the cylinder ???????.... Now for this to occur that means all the valves would have to be closed. impossible. As we all know they are in a constant stae of flux. And for so much oil to be dragged up... I simply cant see it ive never seen it before. And I been around. It NEVER used a drop of oil before, it has good oil pressure (Irrelevent I Know) but it lends to the overall argument of the bottom end being good. I kknow the guy who pulled it appart wasnt the guy who put it together. There are just so many variables. Now some of you have mistaken my sarcasm as a personal shot at you. I apolagise... This was not meant to be. Im just so frustrated. Others have said im stupid for suggesting a cam bearing. Well whats changed..... from the smooth quite engine that went in. The Anciliry belt removed that only leaves crank spinning cam turning valves running. So the whipped cream episode fryed a bearing in the bottom end ??? Dont think so. The screwdriver in the ear, has the whining coming direct from the head. And does anyone believe or have they seen oil sucked uphill ??? I havent. My suspect is some stoned nuffy fitted incorrect guides to valves. Its that or cam bearing. And I dont believe in cam bearing. Why would the cam tensioner change tension with the new head ??? Im open to suggestions. And for those I insulted with my sarcasm borne from frustration I apologise. Its just that this is gonna cost.... Lots, and time.. I can c friday the next possability. Im trying to run a bussiness. So tommorow in my best diplomatic fashion. Im gonna go get it. Do it myself. Take my old head to a local joint ive dealt with lots of times, Just pay the bill. And be as reasonable as i can in saying thanks but no thanks. Enough ..... Again for those I offended my appolagies. PS Remember it may be you asking for help here one day, and as much as you think you know everything, there is always a curve ball like this one which will and can confuse and confond. Regards Daz
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:21 am 
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When removing the camshaft, the cam chain tensioner needs to be removed and reset once the camshaft, rocker assembly, camshaft sprocket etc are back in place. By not removing the tensioner, the tensioner will most likely be fully released, pushing the chain guide further into the timing cover while the camshaft is out ie...the tensioner is taking up the slack of the chain. They then replace the cam without removing the tensioner which is probably now sitting awkwardly in the fully released state. Whoever put the camshaft back on, may have forced the camshaft sprocket back onto the camshaft which in turn tightens the chain applying more tension than is required.

Due to this over tension of the chain, you hear a whine due a lot more rubbing than needed between all the moving parts. I suspect over time, your auxiliary shaft may be eating through your block...I am speaking from experience with my last engine, just mine didn't whine, since I had a broken guide which probably help reduce the noise.

Anyways, you can try and reset the tensioner and see what happens from there. If the whine goes away you found your answer, if not, at least you know the tension is now set.

 

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EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:48 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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phongus wrote:
When removing the camshaft, the cam chain tensioner needs to be removed and reset once the camshaft, rocker assembly, camshaft sprocket etc are back in place. By not removing the tensioner, the tensioner will most likely be fully released, pushing the chain guide further into the timing cover while the camshaft is out ie...the tensioner is taking up the slack of the chain. They then replace the cam without removing the tensioner which is probably now sitting awkwardly in the fully released state. Whoever put the camshaft back on, may have forced the camshaft sprocket back onto the camshaft which in turn tightens the chain applying more tension than is required.

Due to this over tension of the chain, you hear a whine due a lot more rubbing than needed between all the moving parts. I suspect over time, your auxiliary shaft may be eating through your block...I am speaking from experience with my last engine, just mine didn't whine, since I had a broken guide which probably help reduce the noise.

Anyways, you can try and reset the tensioner and see what happens from there. If the whine goes away you found your answer, if not, at least you know the tension is now set.


I have never been able to work out how people manage to get the cam gear back on with out taking the tensioner out.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:21 pm 
Parts Gopher
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So today I finally convice the guy. No hard feelings, I just want the car back. He resisted fairly hard saying I wasnt happy and thats not how it works, bla bla bla. I also conned my old head so as to take to a local machine shop where I know the guy. He looks at it. drops a valve out of it. Says yeh stem seals screwed. The rings are good (He says he can tell by the amount of scale or lack of on the combustion chamber). Its obvious my diagnosis is right 2 of the cylinders clean (Water in combustion). Mild reccesing of exhaust valves. All standard all what I expected. Now the mechanic wants to finish the job with a replacement head again from melbourne. I told the guy I know "do it". Im just gonna do the gasket tommorow night couple of beers. Relax take my time, ensure cam tensioner is good, and simply be methodical. Thats whats been disapointing about this whole thing, its not a honda VVTEC enginefrom a S2000. Il have everything there on site. One Off. One on. The mechanic is gonna do a valve for sure... But enough is enough.. They dont look at it like that, He is saying ur not happy I wanna make it right But counting the weekend we r at Day 8... Im not gonna live forever. Thanks for the posative help and comments. Il keep ya posted.
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 Post subject: Re: Worsening self loathing and hatred
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:06 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 50

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Joined: 10th Jul 2012

Ride: Falcon Xh

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

Well what can I say. All Heads Melbourne. Congrads. Broken stem seals on fitment to cylinder 5, inlet and exhuast. Broken stem seal to inlet clinder 6. Weld within microns on impinginging on exhaust valve No 4. Narly burl on Inlet Valve No 4. Would have worn out guide within 2000k. Weld hanging out and ruining machine face on thermostat housing. Very poor quality welding all round. And very poor sealing of valves Inlet and exhuast all cylinders. So in all oil burn obvious on cylinder 5 and 6. Clean the rest but obviously self destruction only Ks away. Now the Mechanic. 4 Bolts missing (All the hard ones) inlet manifold. 1 missing exhuast manifold. Broken cam chain tensioner (Supercharger whine). Looks like it was just forced in breaking the "Gateway" at the "Dog", so when I pulled it apart it simply fell out in my hand. Luckily with the broken part trapped in the spring. Now Ive got to take the head back tommorow, and explain to the mechanic what I found. I re fitted my old head, rebuild at wickham "The Head Men". $200. $160 bolts and gaskets. Goes like a dream. and ALL problems fixed. NOW WISDOM here people.... What is a fair price to pay the mechanic... I want to be fair.... $100. $200.. Nothing... ??? Input please...
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