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locating lip/spigot on hub adapters discussion 

 

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 Post subject: locating lip/spigot on hub adapters discussion
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am 
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There has been some debate on the importance or otherwise of the
existence of a lip/spigot on hub adapters. I am talking about a lip/spigot
that is a neat fit inside the hole in the centre of the rim. I have had at
least one new thought on this and offer the following, in order of
increasing importance;

- during fitment of the wheel a deep lip/spigot takes the weight of the
wheel while you locate the studs in the holes, making it easier. Then a
lip/spigot of any depth makes locating the nut tapers into the rims easier
as well.

- if the wheel nuts come loose a lip/spigot will keep things together for
longer, possibly providing a safety and economic advantage.

- a lip/spigot provides immense backup strength if the studs and the
friction between the hub and the rim are overloaded. During overloading
the studs would flex and the friction would be overcome, but rather than
the studs permanently bending or breaking and the wheel shifting
significantly or letting go, the wheel would only move a fraction then the
lip/spigot would stop any further movement. The studs may then cause a
re-adjustment back towards the original position. Regardless, friction
would be reasserted and all would be well, even the balance.

 

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Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Sun May 18, 2008 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:50 am 
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i didn't like the skinny a** one that came on my hub adapters. got a mates dad to improve them for me.


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2513 ... 016mp5.jpg


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1126 ... 508co9.jpg



they're a press fit into the hub adapters, and a perfect fit into the wheels.

 

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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:31 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
i didn't like the skinny a** one that came on my hub adapters. got a mates dad to improve them for me.

they're a press fit into the hub adapters, and a perfect fit into the wheels.

The originals do look thin, at least a bit thicker would have been better.
It looks like you wouldn't be able to fit standard wheels anymore though?


[PS i have a 14" screen and your photos are BIG, it's great for detail, but in this case smaller might be better?]

 

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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:56 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
twr7cx wrote:
i didn't like the skinny a** one that came on my hub adapters. got a mates dad to improve them for me.

they're a press fit into the hub adapters, and a perfect fit into the wheels.

The originals do look thin, at least a bit thicker would have been better.
It looks like you wouldn't be able to fit standard wheels anymore though?


[PS i have a 14" screen and your photos are BIG, it's great for detail, but in this case smaller might be better?]


I can remove them if there a problem for you.
No standard wheels will fit on most hub adapters with a lip. reason is because the lip goes outwards, meaning that the centre hole in the back of the wheels would have to be larger. this could be changed easy enough but.
that second picture is deceving, the centre peices actually go inwards.

 

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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:27 pm 
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Quote:
I can remove them if there a problem for you.

Oh no, don't do that. Maybe i can learn how to navigate better.
Plus i can use the 'return' buttom more often so the text is easily readable.


Quote:
No standard wheels will fit on most hub adapters with a lip. reason is because the lip goes outwards, meaning that the centre hole in the back of the wheels would have to be larger. this could be changed easy enough but.

I wasn't sure but i figured the standard centre tapers, so once the
adapters are over say one inch, i figured they would machine out the
centre of the adapter while leaving a lip. Hmm.

Another point, not mentioned in my opening ideas but relevant to the
third point, is will the studs break without a lip anyway? Maybe another
part of the suspension would fail before the studs fail. Maybe in a
horizontal load the front radius rod washer would be extruded through the
chassis? And maybe in a vertical load the strut bottom flanges would crumple
and/or the bolt shear? - the load there would be magnified and
the two shear points would be less area than the five studs.



Quote:
that second picture is deceving, the centre peices actually go
inwards.

I thought i was going okay but now i'm confused. Did the original lip get
machined off?

 

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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:41 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
I thought i was going okay but now i'm confused. Did the original lip get
machined off?


Sure did.

 

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:37 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
that second picture is deceving, the centre peices actually go inwards.

I think now it's just your comment i don't get. It looks to me like the hub
adapter wasn't snug on the hub centre, and the insert is, meaning the
insert in that section would be a few mm thick all the way along
(concentric). The outer part, the lip, is possibly say 10mm thick. Towards
the outermost part of the insert it has a radius before it meets the hub. ?

Today i looked at my EBII front hubs and the locater/bearing housing
seems about 50mm long and is not tapered, so i can see that a lip is not
possible or needed here with std wheels.

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:56 pm 
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Here's a picture after some jack prick has stolen one of the center caps from my Simmons - you can see the new centre lip there:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9666 ... 028hl8.jpg

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:53 pm 
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Were the simmons custom made, machined out, or standard? If standard,
why do they make them with a bigger centre that wouldn't be right for
most people?

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:15 am 
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These ones were on an AU previously I think. I had the centers machined out a bit to fit on the hub adapters.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:34 am 
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Did you consider modifying the adapters in such a way that the rims
could stay stock? That would seem easy to do, there would just need to
be a step in the inside diameter of the adaptation.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:02 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Did you consider modifying the adapters in such a way that the rims
could stay stock? That would seem easy to do, there would just need to
be a step in the inside diameter of the adaptation.


THat would have to have been done when the adapters were first made - can't be done afterwards, as the metal has already been taken off.
Either way didn't overly bother me as both ways the wheels and adapters fit fine on the car - I'm not looking at changing wheels any time soon - but I have been thinking about redoing the back simmons so that they're wider and don't need the adapters, leave the fronts as are then when I get a brake upgrade the changed offset won't matter. I can always get some rings to fit in the back of the wheels to fill in whats been removed.

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:49 am 
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twr7cx wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Did you consider modifying
the adapters in such a way that the rims could stay stock? That would
seem easy to do, there would just need to be a step in the inside
diameter of the adaptation.


THat would have to have been done when the adapters were first made -
can't be done afterwards, as the metal has already been taken off.

I don't think it's worth debating, but i was thinking you had added
material during your modifications to the adapter and could have
accomodated my suggestion then, or could do so retrospectively.

I was also thinking that in the original photo the unmodified adapter
actually seems to have a larger I.D. than the O.D. of the axle bearing
cap, which would give a tad more meat to my suggestion, but i knew that
could easily be a viewing trick.

Ultimately of course you can actually do pretty much anything with it if
you have a lathe, welder, associated tools and materials, and sufficient
expertise.

I figure as a general rule where you have to modify one thing or another
its better to modify the cheapest most readily available component.

And yet all in all i can't say exactly what i would have done when faced
with your situation because there are numerous peripheral factors i'm not
aware of.

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:55 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
twr7cx wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Did you consider modifying
the adapters in such a way that the rims could stay stock? That would
seem easy to do, there would just need to be a step in the inside
diameter of the adaptation.


THat would have to have been done when the adapters were first made -
can't be done afterwards, as the metal has already been taken off.

I don't think it's worth debating, but i was thinking you had added
material during your modifications to the adapter and could have
accomodated my suggestion then, or could do so retrospectively.


You are right, I did add the new peice in, but the back of the wheels had already been machined prior to that.

There are alternative ways of doing it, and if I had the resources myself I quiet possibly would change it, but it's working fine as is.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:28 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
[PS i have a 14" screen and your photos are BIG, it's great for detail, but in this case smaller might be better?]


I can remove them if there a problem for you.
.


"twr7cx" can you not post pictures of that resolution and file size, even if you had some massive resolution you would have needed to scroll across the screen to read posts, there is also members stuck with dialup, you had almost 3mb of pictures posted (no I am definitely not on dialup 8-) ).

 

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