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Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura 

 

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 Post subject: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:10 pm 
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Ride: Falcon EL Futura 1997

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Hey there...

Bottom line - neither the driver or passenger power window now work. Both simultaneously failed intermittently about 4 times (usually for a period of several minutes) over the course of one week. Until finally both refused to work and simply will not work until something gets fixed, leaving me with the passenger window open by about 2 inches - very cold drive in the mornings.

What should I check and in what order? I'm on a budget, traveling around Australia and already got ripped off by AutoMasters (yes I was a mug) so I'm reluctant to take it in to anyone.

I have checked the circuit breaker fuse for the power windows, by taking the metal cap off and having a browse, all seems to be okay, although I'm going to buy another as a matter of course, as soon as I can work out where to buy one from (I'm from England and I have no clue about where to buy what for cars over here)

From reading various threads on here (trust me, I have tried to find an answer already) I'm assuming each window has it's own reg and motor and therefore a double power window fail would suggest that this is not the cause of the problem?

I know this isn't technically a 'mod' but I reckon it qualifies as I would like to modify my car from one that has a 2 inch permanent air vent to one that doesn't :-)

Any help would be massively appreciated.

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:16 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: 1977 Ford Escort/ 1994 Ford EF

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maybe check the main switch plug?
lift the console lid, undo 2 screws and lift the cup holder/switches out, and check the plug.

check all fuses.

can you hear the window motors when you press the button?
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:18 pm 
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Ride: 1977 Ford Escort/ 1994 Ford EF

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dbl
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:33 pm 
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yeah id say it's your switches mate, i had the same problem with my drivers window, some days itd work and some days not, turned out to be the switch unit in the console had died.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Ride: Ford EL Fairmont

Location: Melbourne
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i got the same problem mate. drivers window doesnt want to come down. i just took my buttons out and spent a good 45 mins cleaning the whole thing in and out. plugged it back in and nothing changed, yet the buttons felt much smoother. i would try your buttons first, but very good chance both your window reg and motors need replacing.
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Try swapping the metal 30a fuse with a regular 30 fuse, if that doesn`t work it will likely be the switch assy. They can be had for $50- $80 on ebay and will take just minutes to change.
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:25 am 
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Location: Brisbane
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My EF Falcon Futura has done the exact some thing, the EL and EF are the same car but the EL is a year newer. A couple of days ago my two front power windows stopped working, I only have the two at the front. But after a couple of minutes they started working again. Just today they stopped again, then started working but have now stopped and thats it, they don't seem to work anymore.

You would think because they stopped at the same time there can not be a problem at the door, it will have to be at the switches next to the gear stick. But the thing is, the buttons that work the windows are separate, so they can't be broken. They merge together into a network of cables that makes its way to the BEM (Body Electronics Module)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.p ... 37e868.jpg

I have checked the fuse and its fine and because they stopped then started working then stopped, you can be sure its a not a fuse. It could be the Grounding positions, there is one at the switches next to the gear stick, here is the circuit diagram for the EL and can be used for the EF.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.p ... bcc220.jpg

Last edited by major987 on Fri May 07, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:50 am 
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major987 wrote:
My EF Falcon Futura has done the exact some thing, the EL and EF are the same car but the EL is a year newer. A couple of days ago my two front power windows stopped working, I only have the two at the front. But after a couple of minutes they started working again. Just today they stopped again, then started working but have now stopped and thats it, they don't seem to work anymore.

You would think because they stopped at the same time there can not be a problem at the door, it will have to be at the switches next to the gear stick. But the think is, the buttons that work the windows are separate, so they can't be broken. They merge together into a network of cables that makes its way to the BEM (Body Electronics Module)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.p ... 37e868.jpg

I have checked the fuse and its fine and because they stopped then started working then stopped, you can be sure its a not a fuse. It could be the Grounding positions, there is one at the switches next to the gear stick, here is the circuit diagram for the EL and can be sued for the EF.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.p ... bcc220.jpg


I found this on another forum, I had water dropping onto my feet when it rained a about a month ago, I will have to look more into this.

"Have Fairlane AU 1999 for 1 year. Noticed the issue with the (mainly rear) power windows not responding. Cleaned all door switches, changed switch - BUL..., same! Tha magic idea of 30 times on-off and lucky 31st time window moving - excuse me- not scientific, but witchery.
Than (aparently UNRELATED) had water coming on the floor - driver side. Thought coolant, door seal ... NOT. Thorough investigation let me to the A-pillar (the side frame of the windshield) - the pillar is made out of sheet-metal parts overlaping... at the overlap in the lower part of the pillar the sealant/glue strip left a small (less them 1 mm) gap through which the rain water was welcoming itself into the interior of the car. WATER LEAK SOLVED!!! - 1:0 for me!!! But when I said UNRELATED - I have now to say "RELATED" and that is why:
The water drippind towards the floor actually, on its way down, drips onto a large loom connector (about "milion" connections and ... CORRODED CONTACTS EVERYWHERE!!!!) ( the connector (and the water leak) path are hidden BEHIND the side trim cover to the right of the gas pedal). As the el. diagram in the owners manual is made understadable only by genius (and I am just a mechanical engineer) I could not chase what is coming in and out of this connector - I decided to do "elimination". Was VERY HARD to open up the WELDED BY CORROSION connector (WD40 is a blessed substance in this case) after which with the help of the built-in open/close lever the connector gave up. Sprayed the contacts with "Contact cleaber" fluid (d**k Smith). With connector apart no power windows operate. Put connector together - HAVE NEVER HAD POWER WINDOWS PROBLEMS SINCE THAN (more than 6 mths)/.
So folks - GOOD LUCK in solving the stack power window problem (and by the way the rain-water leak). If it helps, feedback will make me happy."
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:54 am 
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Ride: Futura EF

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

ghia97 wrote:
Try swapping the metal 30a fuse with a regular 30 fuse, if that doesn`t work it will likely be the switch assy. They can be had for $50- $80 on ebay and will take just minutes to change.


do you mean a new connector to the updown power window buttons, like this.Image

Last edited by major987 on Fri May 07, 2010 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Age: 36

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Ride: Futura EF

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

major987 wrote:
ghia97 wrote:
Try swapping the metal 30a fuse with a regular 30 fuse, if that doesn`t work it will likely be the switch assy. They can be had for $50- $80 on ebay and will take just minutes to change.


do you mean a new connector to the up down power window buttons, like this.Image


I just pulled it out and test every wire, they all work fine......
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:55 pm 
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Age: 36

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Ride: Falcon EL Futura 1997

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Thanks very much for the responses. I'll try to answer everything...

Already checked the main switch plug.... seems to be okay, although I didn't unwrap some electricians tape in order to perform a full check on all connections that were found under the cup holder business. Switches did seem fine though.

Checked most fuses. Will check all as part of the problem elimination process.

Can't hear any motors running at all when I try the buttons.

Already tried one of the regular 30A fuses from the rear demister or something. No luck.



Next checks (probably on Sunday as I have work at ridiculous time of 5am tomorrow):

1. Check all fuses

2. Check switch plug area in detail, including whatever lurks underneath electricians tape

3. Check grounding position as suggested by major987

4. Check for potential leaks and possible corroded contacts

5. Bang head against steering wheel in despair

Will update as to any or lack or progress on Sunday.

Seems to be a common problem for us mechanical engineers. Cheers.
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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pull the switches out of the holder in the console, 2x screws under the console lid, then lift up with the cup holder and unplug from underneath, then remove 2x screws on the underside and remove the switches by pushing in the tabs. remove the button from the switch and clean up the contacts inside reassemble and test
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:12 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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major987 wrote:
ghia97 wrote:
Try swapping the metal 30a fuse with a regular 30 fuse, if that doesn`t work it will likely be the switch assy. They can be had for $50- $80 on ebay and will take just minutes to change.


do you mean a new connector to the updown power window buttons, like this.Image


this plug is to wire up an aftermarket stereo to the standard falcon/fairmont loom
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:05 am 
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Ride: Futura EF

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

XRfairmont67 wrote:
major987 wrote:
ghia97 wrote:
Try swapping the metal 30a fuse with a regular 30 fuse, if that doesn`t work it will likely be the switch assy. They can be had for $50- $80 on ebay and will take just minutes to change.


do you mean a new connector to the updown power window buttons, like this.Image


this plug is to wire up an aftermarket stereo to the standard falcon/fairmont loom


Yes it is, it looks just like the power window connector that plugs into my switches this is why I used the picture, I tested all the wires and they all work, I have not yet determined how to make sure all the wires that this connector plugs into work, I could determine that 12 volts of power was being supplied to this connector.

I took apart the switches like you said, I could not get all the way in them but gave them a good blow and where I could removed any dust. The problem is, they both don't work, at the same time, they stopped working then start working again then stopped again. This should mean the problem is something that controls both the switches. The switches come together at the wires pictured above then make their way to the BEM. My BEM was playing up with its smart lock not allowing me to start the car, I soon found from this forum that you need to hit the dash board to make it start, it worked and it now starts every time without the need to hit the dash.

The funny thing is I would rather it be a Power Window Regulator Motor so i could just replace it.

Can I reset the BEM, or will a computer diagnostic maybe find the problem.
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 Post subject: Re: Power Window Problem - EL Falcon Futura
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EL F100 CAPRI XR EF

Power: 234 rwkw

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SA, Australia

here is a pic of the switches pulled apart.
there is a thin rubber dust shield between the button and the switch case.
lift the rubber up and u will see 2 tabs, 1 each side, put a flat bladed screwdriver inbetween and slightly twist , the clip releases and the button comes out
u can see how dirty the contacts get in there and is easy enough to clean up with a cotton bud. worth a try and is a 10 minute job that costs u nothing

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