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Bad LPG installs. 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:43 pm 
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wow.. thats just nasty
its good to see someone showing the bad and good installs.

ive had to do some repairs to mine aswell. vic car too
was done and complied in "96" and to be honest im surprised mine didnt screw up sooner electrically
service line and all the mounts are proper. was just on the electrics they didnt give 2 s**t about. bare connections, poorly soldered connections where they bothered to and not just scotch locked it.

long story short. scored a elec fire on the gas loom for the fuel cut relay. which resulted in me doing a loom swap for one out of a late nl that was fitted new 4 years ago.
good thing now is the lpg loom now suits the impco components as previously it was suited to a brc setup. as the lambda controller was one of the things that had failed it wasnt going into closed loop at all.

only reason why the brc components were removed as i had alot of trouble with the same model converter on a previous car and i had the impco stuff waiting to go on so i got the setup changed.
i was told it wont go into closed loop, but it wasnt doing it anyways..

Image
aftermath of being at the snowfeilds. and a poor placement of where it was fitted
was fitted on top of the drain hole on the passenger side inner guard

Image
top right corner.. you'll see where it used to live.

dont worry coil has since been moved elsewhere as that location was a short term fix to get me out of trouble as i had a few s**t coils
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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:00 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
Yeah I don't like panel filler either, Porblem is there is no filler for that van to fit behind filler door. Some times, like you said, you just have to make do.
TBH, the setup you've done is the best IMO - if the petrol flap is halfway along the vehicle, it's a bit cumbersome to run the filler and convoluted hose all the way up to it.
tickford_6 wrote:
The VS tank was a case of the installer fitting the tank and welding the shield on after.That in it's self is bad enough, This guy tried to do it with a welder hat was set far to high and he had no welding ability.The install was only 6months old, I had it in far an inspection/cert for rego purposes and failed it.It's discusting as it's very obvious and the guy who did would have been well aware of what he did.The tank has had the threads and seal surfaces destroid to make sure it can't be used.
Yeah, I was guessing that was the likely scenario - they must've blown holes through the stoneguard looking at the splatter on the tank ?? Shame you didn't have pics before you took it all off.
Why you need to weld the guard on puzzles me - that setup is same VG-VY utes ???
Easy to do at the time - would make it hard when you need to access the tank and bands.
I'm guessing the proper setup has the guard bolted on.

My XH ute tank has brackets at the ends to mount to the subframe, and brackets to bolt the stoneguard to, was pretty easy to get in & out for testing.

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:45 pm 
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Hi Tickford_6, like others have said, always good to have input from tradespeople in particular areas, LPG especially cos of the safety angle...

Couple of qu's for you...1) What are your thoughts on cold air induction with gas? Lots of sites on the web talk about lpg loving cold air, yet when I was a cabbie all the EF's etc had their cold air intakes sealed off with silicone - I saw this on soo many different cabs and could never work it out..I want to put some CAI on my lpg 351 (Impco 300, amos ring setup) but have also been told it plays havoc with gas delivery - what are your thoughts?

2) My other qu. is to do with plumbing of hot water to converters - so many times you see people using hardware shop PVC T pieces intended for poly garden irrigation, not hot water. My car had this until recently when one started to collapse due to them not being designed to work with heat - the collapsing fitting was temporarily shutting down one pipe and causing converter freezing - I re-plumbed so that the hoses go straight from the engine to the converter (heater has a slight leak and so is out of the picture for the moment anyway) - but when i DO get the heater going again and re-do the heater hoses I want to go with copper T pieces so I don't have this problem again. What are your thoughts on PVC T pieces? Many cars seem to use them...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:37 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
Yeah, I was guessing that was the likely scenario - they must've blown holes through the stoneguard looking at the splatter on the tank ?? Shame you didn't have pics before you took it all off.
Why you need to weld the guard on puzzles me - that setup is same VG-VY utes ???
Easy to do at the time - would make it hard when you need to access the tank and bands.
I'm guessing the proper setup has the guard bolted on.

My XH ute tank has brackets at the ends to mount to the subframe, and brackets to bolt the stoneguard to, was pretty easy to get in & out for testing.



Some are weld on, some are bolt on. That ute was a Sprintgas mount with a retested
second hand tank. That mount has no provision for bolting on the guard.
In this case welding on the guard didn't effect access or maintenance.
I weld some guards on, BUT I if I need to do it with the tank in place I loosen the bands and fit a steel plate between the band and tank, NO chance of putting heat into the tank or hitting it with the welder.
The ones that s**t me are when people weld them when it's clear there are provisions to bolt on.

There are photos of that one, it's just they belong to the gas inspector,

He was at work looking at a different tank, (story in its self) I showed him that and he took interest in it.

The other tank: I've had 3 VN-VS statesmans at work in the last 6 months all with the same damage.
There is a bracket under the parcel shelf that the boot struts attach to. When the tank is first fitted 15 od years ago there is plenty of clearence, but over time the brackets bend down and rub on the curved end of the tank. The worst one we measured at %50 thickness in the rub groove.
After the third one I called the inspector as there is clearly a problem with this type install.
All it will take is for one car to not have its ten year tank test and it will go unfound. I'd hate to see the result a cold rupture in the boot of a moving car. Think i've still got that tank. I'll post a photo. Just to be clear though, I don't believe it to be the fault of the installer or the tank manufacturer. Just a weak design in the car that no one could have foreseen.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:48 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:

Couple of qu's for you...1) What are your thoughts on cold air induction with gas? Lots of sites on the web talk about lpg loving cold air, yet when I was a cabbie all the EF's etc had their cold air intakes sealed off with silicone - I saw this on soo many different cabs and could never work it out..I want to put some CAI on my lpg 351 (Impco 300, amos ring setup) but have also been told it plays havoc with gas delivery - what are your thoughts?

Cold air won't hurt. People have problems with ram air. having a slightly higher pressure at the mixer then what is found at the converter can cause problems, It's the reason you see a balance line fitted. As for the Impco, there are other guys on here with more experience with Impco gear then me.


tearlejc wrote:
2) My other qu. is to do with plumbing of hot water to converters - so many times you see people using hardware shop PVC T pieces intended for poly garden irrigation, not hot water. My car had this until recently when one started to collapse due to them not being designed to work with heat - the collapsing fitting was temporarily shutting down one pipe and causing converter freezing - I re-plumbed so that the hoses go straight from the engine to the converter (heater has a slight leak and so is out of the picture for the moment anyway) - but when i DO get the heater going again and re-do the heater hoses I want to go with copper T pieces so I don't have this problem again. What are your thoughts on PVC T pieces? Many cars seem to use them...


I don't like composite fittings at all, cheap bunnings one or proper cooling system ones. I prefer to use brass fitting from places like Pirtek

Proper cooling system ones, made from the same stuff as most radiators are made from these days, In my experience have a life expectancy of about 8 years. at that point I recommend ANY composite cooling system components be replaced, radiators included.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:23 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
I've had 3 VN-VS statesmans at work in the last 6 months all with the same damage.There is a bracket under the parcel shelf that the boot struts attach to. When the tank is first fitted 15 od years ago there is plenty of clearence, but over time the brackets bend down and rub on the curved end of the tank. The worst one we measured at %50 thickness in the rub groove.
After the third one I called the inspector as there is clearly a problem with this type install.
All it will take is for one car to not have its ten year tank test and it will go unfound. I'd hate to see the result a cold rupture in the boot of a moving car. Think i've still got that tank. I'll post a photo. Just to be clear though, I don't believe it to be the fault of the installer or the tank manufacturer. Just a weak design in the car that no one could have foreseen.
It's a bit hard to test for that kind of stuff on a proving ground - can't really subsitute time/wear etc on some things.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:09 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
I've had 3 VN-VS statesmans at work in the last 6 months all with the same damage.There is a bracket under the parcel shelf that the boot struts attach to. When the tank is first fitted 15 od years ago there is plenty of clearence, but over time the brackets bend down and rub on the curved end of the tank. The worst one we measured at %50 thickness in the rub groove.
After the third one I called the inspector as there is clearly a problem with this type install.
All it will take is for one car to not have its ten year tank test and it will go unfound. I'd hate to see the result a cold rupture in the boot of a moving car. Think i've still got that tank. I'll post a photo. Just to be clear though, I don't believe it to be the fault of the installer or the tank manufacturer. Just a weak design in the car that no one could have foreseen.
It's a bit hard to test for that kind of stuff on a proving ground - can't really subsitute time/wear etc on some things.


Exactly, but we can have a notice issued that would mean all installers are made aware of the issue.
That way all the effected tanks can be removed and all other cars can have the mounts strengthened (simple: drill hole, fit nut and bolt).

Only seems to be a problem with the statos regular commodores don't seem to have the issue

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bad LPG installs.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:46 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
If that troopy was ever rear ended, it would have ruptured the rear most (stainless) tank and in all likely hood it would have ignited.

If you think that either funny or awesome, you are an even bigger C**k sucker then I already thought you were.
When are you d**k heads going to realise LPG is not a game.


Nice bleve' situation - no-one comes back from one of those. We watched a bleve' situation at the fireground in Jervis Bay using a large LPG cylinder. The cylinder was dug into the ground and an explosive cutting charge used to slice through the side of the tank, simulating something piercing it. We were half a km away on the ground and felt the radiated heat coming off it.

Get professionals to play with it - I wouldn't even know where to look!!!

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