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BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection 

 

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 Post subject: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:55 pm 
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I am hoping for more replies in this forum than my post in 'fordforums'...

I am wondering what to expect in terms of reliability, performance and economy when installing an Orbital Liquid Injection system.

I am also interested to know if there are any differences in driving characteristics when compared with petrol.

Just to know people's experiences with this system before I get mine installed next week would be nice. But then again, who knows, maybe I AM the first one to install this system!

Please let me know about your experiences :)
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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:40 pm 
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I have a BA XT with the Orbital LPI system.

The underbonnet assembly is VERY neat and almost invisible to the casual observer apart from two supply / return lines that run around the throttle body to the coupling block adjacent to the front block of injectors.

Pump noise from the tank is very noticeable. You will hear the pump whining away from the driver's seat if you have the radio and airconditioning turned off.

We've averaged 14L/100km in the 8 months that we've had the system installed.

Performance wise, it goes better on gas than it does on even 98RON PULP petrol (which is all that we use on all of our cars). The engine revs cleanly on LPG all the way to the top and the throttle response is slightly better when running on this fuel.

If you can't get the JTG system or if you want to save yourself about $1000, the Orbital system isn't a bad choice.

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:59 pm 
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Thanks for the responses so far. I was wondering whether or not the pump would be noticeable, and it sounds like it will be.

"PoweredByCNG", is your BA a sedan or a wagon? My BF is a sedan, so perhaps less pump noise will come through? Also, was your conversion done at Gaspower?

I was thinking JTG, but at $1000 more, I seriously doubt it would be any better. I think they use a toroidal tank, which leaves no room for the spare. The tank alone costs $500 extra! I've also heard of some rather pricey replacement parts at 40 000km. So what is actually better about JTG?

More performance on gas than 98 unleaded? That is quite surprising, but I'm glad to hear that, as I run Caltex 98 all the time, one of the reasons contributing to my decision to switch to a decent gas system (price of fuel!).

So does the Orbital system use the car's standard computer just like JTG does? It does appeal to me if the car runs as it was designed to run on petrol, using gas instead.
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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:09 pm 
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spvd02 wrote:
"PoweredByCNG", is your BA a sedan or a wagon? My BF is a sedan, so perhaps less pump noise will come through? Also, was your conversion done at Gaspower?


We have a sedan and YES, the installation was performed at GasPower.

Quote:
I was thinking JTG, but at $1000 more, I seriously doubt it would be any better. I think they use a toroidal tank, which leaves no room for the spare. The tank alone costs $500 extra! I've also heard of some rather pricey replacement parts at 40 000km. So what is actually better about JTG?


Nah, no pricey parts at 40,000km. The JTG system is MUCH better because it is mechanically calibrated as opposed to computer calibrated. The Orbital system can NOT be adjusted by the installer so if you modify the engine, you're going to be in trouble.

Quote:
So does the Orbital system use the car's standard computer just like JTG does?


Yes, but the Orbital system also has it's own ECU which stores calibration data as well as operational parameters (i.e. purge time, petrol switchover rpm, etc.).

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:53 am 
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Interesting you refer to JTG as being "MUCH" better. I see you have 2 BA XR6's, one with Orbital and one with JTG. What differences do you notice between them, or they are very similar?

Also, how much more did JTG cost, and what sort of mods are likely to cause trouble using Orbital?

And thanx for all the useful info so far :)
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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:07 am 
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Nate
I have gas injection on my territory, Tartarini its magic starts on petrol changes to gas once cat reaches 30c economy is 5.5 ks per litre around town 7.5ks on a long trip fuel bill gone from $75 to $30 a week loose the spare but carry a repair kit

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:47 am 
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spvd02 wrote:
Interesting you refer to JTG as being "MUCH" better. I see you have 2 BA XR6's, one with Orbital and one with JTG. What differences do you notice between them, or they are very similar?


My main gripe with the Orbital system is long switchover time in cool weather. While the JTG system switches over to LPG at a fixed time (i.e. about 45 seconds) after you turn the engine on, the Orbital system may take up to three minutes to change over in winter.

In addition, the JTG pump is quieter, the multivalve arrangement ensures that no supply and return lines petrude into your boot space, the injector size is more than adequate to cater for large powerful V8s, and of course ALPGW don't have a policy of necessitating a switchover to petrol at high rpm.

Quote:
Also, how much more did JTG cost, and what sort of mods are likely to cause trouble using Orbital?


The previous owner of the XR6 paid well over $5000 for the JTG system to be installed.

Mods that are likely to affect the operation of the Orbital system are such things as intake / exhaust mods, performance upgrade chips, flash tunes, ... basically anything that influences the power of the engine.

Orbital don't seem all that interested at assisting their installers either. The calibration data can not be accessed or modified by the installer so any recalibration must be done by Orbital themselves. In contrast, to recalibrate a JTG system, all the installer needs to do is to change the injector calibrators.

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:01 pm 
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PoweredByCNG wrote:
spvd02 wrote:
Interesting you refer to JTG as being "MUCH" better. I see you have 2 BA XR6's, one with Orbital and one with JTG. What differences do you notice between them, or they are very similar?


My main gripe with the Orbital system is long switchover time in cool weather. While the JTG system switches over to LPG at a fixed time (i.e. about 45 seconds) after you turn the engine on, the Orbital system may take up to three minutes to change over in winter.

In addition, the JTG pump is quieter, the multivalve arrangement ensures that no supply and return lines petrude into your boot space, the injector size is more than adequate to cater for large powerful V8s, and of course ALPGW don't have a policy of necessitating a switchover to petrol at high rpm.

Quote:
Also, how much more did JTG cost, and what sort of mods are likely to cause trouble using Orbital?


The previous owner of the XR6 paid well over $5000 for the JTG system to be installed.

Mods that are likely to affect the operation of the Orbital system are such things as intake / exhaust mods, performance upgrade chips, flash tunes, ... basically anything that influences the power of the engine.

Orbital don't seem all that interested at assisting their installers either. The calibration data can not be accessed or modified by the installer so any recalibration must be done by Orbital themselves. In contrast, to recalibrate a JTG system, all the installer needs to do is to change the injector calibrators.



Is there any reason why they start on petrol?
I'm wanting to go go straight liquid injected LPG on my xr6 turbo.
And who and were did you go to get yours installed?
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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:58 pm 
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tonyb62 wrote:
Is there any reason why they start on petrol?
I'm wanting to go go straight liquid injected LPG on my xr6 turbo.
And who and were did you go to get yours installed?


Several reasons, with one important one.

Firstly, all dual-fuel injected LPG systems start on petrol for easier startability.

Secondly, petrol start is required to meet emissions regulations.

And most importantly, Liquid LPG Injection systems require petrol start because of Australia's requirements. LPG can not flow around an engine bay for more than three seconds before the ignition is turned on. Liquid LPG Injection systems require that the system be purged (i.e. free of vapour 'bubbles') before the system can function properly and this purging process takes signifcantly more than three seconds.

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:00 am 
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Sounds like the JTG is the better system, but I will go for the Orbital as it's already booked in, and my car will not be extensively modified. I also think the JTG is quite expensive if it's well over $5000.00 . I guess yu get what you pay for, but ultimately I need a reliable gas system that performs well, but also one that I can earn back in as short as possible a timeframe. That's the main reason you convert to gas anyway - to save money. I guess all these things need to be considered... if only it were simple :)
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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:16 am 
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spvd02 wrote:
Sounds like the JTG is the better system, but I will go for the Orbital as it's already booked in, and my car will not be extensively modified. I also think the JTG is quite expensive if it's well over $5000.00 . I guess yu get what you pay for, but ultimately I need a reliable gas system that performs well, but also one that I can earn back in as short as possible a timeframe. That's the main reason you convert to gas anyway - to save money. I guess all these things need to be considered... if only it were simple :)


Which GasPower branch are you booked into? How much are they charging you?

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:35 am 
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It's Gaspower in the city (Perth) on Newcastle Street, and they're charging me $4500 for the Orbital system. They did mention that they should have been charging $4750, but since head office told $4500, they would honour that.
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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:40 pm 
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spvd02 wrote:
It's Gaspower in the city (Perth) on Newcastle Street, and they're charging me $4500 for the Orbital system. They did mention that they should have been charging $4750, but since head office told $4500, they would honour that.


$4500 is the going rate. Any more than that and they're ripping you off.

I'm looking forward to seeing your review of the system when you have it up and running.

Cheers!

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:17 pm 
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No worries, and thanks for your input - it's been a very interesting conversation :) .
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 Post subject: Re: BF XT with Orbital Liquid injection
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:10 pm 
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As orbital has bought out Boral Gas here in Sydney & having a seek at the system as one of the other threads had mentioned the system has its limitations & not to accomidate any performance upgrades...... pump being one that I'm awear of, but I've being invited to one of there sales/training weekend so I'll see what it can or cann't do & as far as programing goes in also seeing whats avaiable
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