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Duel Fuel - Petrol questions 

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:51 am 
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this seriously sounds cool
and the new cheap way
any1 else got any more info on how id go about this CNG and costs???


cheers
dRIFTY

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:54 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
and better quality i.e. 100% propane as far as i've heard...


FYI, CNG is 90%+ methane (CH4).

Regards,
Dave

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:27 pm 
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any more info on this cng?

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:17 pm 
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vrblou02 wrote:
any more info on this cng?


CNG as a fuel is very popular in Europe and is used mainly in buses in Australia (for those who don't know, LPG buses are EXTREMELY rare). It is stored as a gas under pressure at around 200-250 bar maximum. Unlike LPG, CNG does not liquefy readily under pressure and therefore larger tanks are required in order to achieve acceptable range. CNG cars are are in Australia, although recently I have seen a CNG-powered Holden Rodeo in the Perth suburbs. In the late 1990s, a project was undertaken in Melbourne to trial CNG Falcons as taxis.

The characteristics of CNG are similar to the characteristics of LPG. Methane has an extremely high (~130) octane number but a very low cetane number, meaning that it does not respond well to compression ignition but has a very high knock tolerance in spark ignition engines. A CNG-optimised engine has a very high compression ratio (up to 15:1 or so is possible) or has a lower compression ratio when combined with forced induction. The lean-misfire limit of CNG is very high (around Lambda=2), meaning that extremely lean air/fuel ratios can be utilised for higher thermal efficiency. CNG is also safer than LPG because it disperses into the atmosphere in the event of a leak.

With regards to engine components, LPG and CNG have many similarities. Venturi, air-valve, and injected (both single-point injection and sequential multipoint injection) systems are available.

Regards,
Dave

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:24 pm 
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DOUBLE-POST, sorry!

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:46 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
and better quality i.e. 100% propane as far as i've heard...

I was talking about house gas there.

Quote:
FYI, CNG is 90%+ methane (CH4).

Interesting.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:57 am 
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Hang on, are you saying that house gas is CNG? Or at least, CNG that is not very compressed?

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:10 am 
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My AU S1 Tickford Duel Fuel starts on petrol momentarily but I keep about 1/4 tank of petrol in the car for emergencys.

Every 3 months or there abouts I run it on petrol (E10-95) and use 99% of the fuel and put $30 back in.

Other times it runs on LPG.

If I go on a trip I'll put in approx 1/2 tank just in case LPG stuffs up so I can make it to the next town. never had any probs yet.

wonder how many times taxi's switch to petrol....

and switching to petrol on shutdown will cause more engine wear as it washes the bores (petrol being liquid) why do you think LPG engines last longer????

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:51 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Hang on, are you saying that house gas is CNG? Or at least, CNG that is not very compressed?


House gas is natural gas, or methane, delivered at low pressure. To get a usable range from an NGV (natural gas vehicle), the gas needs to be stored in compressed state (200-250 bar maximum). The pressure is reduced at a regulator in a similar fashion to LPG. The only difference is that methane does not liquefy as readily as propane/butane (LPG) and therefore always remains in a gaseous state. LNG (liquefied natural gas) is natural gas stored at -161C in cryogenic tanks and is popular with line-haul truck as well as buses in the States.

Next time you ride a gas-powered bus, pay particular attention to the external roof-line. Chances are, a pack of high-pressure CNG gas cylinders will be hiding under a fibreglass cover towards the front of the bus.

Regards,
Dave

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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this sounds very interesting

so any idea on wat it would cost to get this tank setup done
and then average price of the gaS?


cheers

 

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