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EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG. 

 

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 Post subject: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Hi all,

Quick question or two for guru's. (EF is dual fuel non factory)

1. I just took my wifes EF for a drive and noticed she is on petrol at the moment.. Then I noticed some pinging on acceleration only when on Petrol. Obviously LPG has higher octane, so I'm thinking maybe the computer's learning has messed up petrol/LPG advance and that I should unplug the battery and reset it. I also suspect that it might be an idea to check that the relay that disconnects the oxy sensor when on LPG is still working. Figured I'd ask if I'd forgotten anything else that could cause this. To be honest I'm much more familiar with cars that have distributors.

2. My wifes car pulses on LPG, has since we got it running again. (was unregistered wreck when I got it) I put a converter from an AU on it as the one it had was all corroded and naff.
It is far and away most noticeable when the engine is cold.. on acceleration the power delivery throbs noticeably. The adjustments on the converter make no difference to this and it becomes much less noticeable once everything is hot. The car idles fine on LPG and runs well enough otherwise, but the pulsing is driving me nuts.

Any suggestions would be really helpful and much appreciated. (any suggestions not involving me getting a "newer car" that is.) :-)


cheers

Franki
Perth

Last edited by frankieh on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Have you got the knock sensor plugged in?
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:45 pm 
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Make sure the spark plugs are in good order, have you got the right ones? Check the leads also. The coil packs on EF's are known to break down, but I'd be more suspecting the spark plugs being eithier worn out, or the wrong type. I think ZGR6B11's from NGK would be the go, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also as mentioned make sure the knock sensor is plugged in, What ECU does it have?

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:49 pm 
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ZGR6B11 are the LPG/Xr6 spec plug from EA thru to early AU falcon. Gap them about 0.8mm & they should run well, providing the rest of the ignition system is up to scratch.

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ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Just had another thought..........what type of petrol are you running in it? Try running on Premium 98 Octane fuel instead of regular unleaded.

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:02 am 
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Ok., to answer some questions, ecu is factory gli ef. Plugs are nearly new champions, but i dont know the model till tomorrow. The pinging wasnt there a month ago. Also the head was skimmed and has an au mls gasket under it. Id guess the fuel is the cheapest my wife could find in wa as she runs lpg pretty much uniformly. I did change the oil a week ago and filled it with HX7 semi synthetic... Dont think that is related but its the only thing that has happened to the car lately.

Incidently, the pulse doesnt feel like a miss as such, it feels more like a pulsing loss of power to all cylinders rather than the loss of one. Ill try the new plugs, but i dont think that is related to the pulsing... Perhaps they are to hot though and causing the pinging.
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:06 am 
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Yeah, too hot a plug will cause pinging, as will crap fuel, try a tank of 98 Octane. The pulsing sounds like it could even be related to coils or leads, or even the gas lock off some how turning the gas on and off, maybe something is up with the lambada control causing it to have dodgy mixtures too. The LPG will have a computer that adjusts the mixtures based on the oxygen sensor reading.

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:25 pm 
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Really? I didnt think the oxy senzor got used when the car is on lpg, i fact i thought it was disconnected in an afternarket lpg setup via relay?
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Depends on the system, what sort of LPG system is it? Impco? what type of mixer/converter does it have? I am pretty sure all LPG cars after 1991 have to have a lambada control unit.

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:21 pm 
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yeah,, I can verify it does have a lambda control module under the dash, I fixed the power issue it had when I first got the car.

Didn't know it used the oxy sensor though..


going out to get the recommended plugs shortly.

cheers

Frank
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:05 pm 
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frankieh wrote:
yeah,, I can verify it does have a lambda control module under the dash, I fixed the power issue it had when I first got the car.

Didn't know it used the oxy sensor though..


going out to get the recommended plugs shortly.

cheers

Frank


I could be wrong but I'm about 99% sure that the lambada control module alters LPG mixtures based on the reading it gets from the oxygen sensor.

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Just looked it up and you are right.. closed loop systems use the oxy sensor for extra accuracy.

http://www.chilterngascars.co.uk/cars/lpghowb.htm
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Yeah the O2 sensor is normally switched over to an LPG computer/processor by a changeover relay. Pre 2003 cars need to be closed loop for emissions.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:27 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Good to know mr snap. Ta.

I unplugged the battery and the reset stopped the pinging. But just to be sure i bought 12 of the above mentioned ngk plugs, gapped them at .8 and did both cars. All good but the pulse is still
there.

Ta all!
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 Post subject: Re: EF pings on petrol, fine on LPG.
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Sorry to resurrect my own old thread.. but my EL is pinging like a b1tch... knock sensor is plugged in, plugs are gapped as above.. ECU is a bog stock EL ghia. Plugs are fairly new NGK as above gapped as above als, fuel is both standard and 96... (a mixture would be more accurate as the tanks are never completely empty.)

My question is... If the Lambda module gets it's signal from the oxy sensor.. it presumably breaks into that wire somewhere between the sensor and the ECU... If I use a relay to cut the ECU feed right at the ECU when it's on GAS.. that would stop the engine learning bad habits while allowing the LPG system to still use the oxy sensor?

If that is the case, I'll do it to both the wifes EF and my EL.. they both start pining about a week after resetting the ECU.. so they must be learning the LPG's octane as it relates to timing advance and applying it to petrol.

any thoughts?
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