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extractors on bf egas 

 

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 Post subject: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:50 pm 
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i wanna buy a set of extractors thinking of 4495 but not sure with the converter in the way has any one done it before and dose it fit
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:26 pm 
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It's not worth the time and money to fit them.

 

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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:51 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
It's not worth the time and money to fit them.


any more details ?
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:38 am 
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The egas is pretty much the god of slow. While it's trying to pull air through a 40mm restriction in the intake, it's a waste of time trying to improve the exhaust system.

Save the money, sell the egas buy a regular falcon and put a vapor injection system on it.
Even completely stock it will be faster then a modified egas car.

 

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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:56 am 
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tickford_6 wrote:
The egas is pretty much the god of slow. While it's trying to pull air through a 40mm restriction in the intake, it's a waste of time trying to improve the exhaust system.

Save the money, sell the egas buy a regular falcon and put a vapor injection system on it.
Even completely stock it will be faster then a modified egas car.


I'll beg to differ a bit here.....the egas engine is still a BF Barra engine, and as such, can be modified to get LOTS of horsepower, infact, as a bonus, it already has higher compression and the same pistons and rods as an F6 Typhoon. BUT the egas system itself is very restrictive. As mentioned, a vapour injection system would be good, better still would be liquid gas injection, but even a basic converter/mixer setup that is well sorted could be better. an Impco Model L converter and a 225 Mixer would probably be a good place to start. The converter can be mounted somewhere else in the engine bay to allow room for the extractors too. Infact I beleve there's no reason you couldnt add a Turbo if you did some reaseach and thought about it carefully, I'm sure a flash tune would handle the computer side of things, but there may be a bit too much compression so you might have to run low boost.

Just my 2c,

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:01 pm 
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i was told that extractors would add a bit of power but they are not sure if they would fit with the converter it has cams in it so they said to get extractors i just wanna no if i have to move the converter a bit or not
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Gab1 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
The egas is pretty much the god of slow. While it's trying to pull air through a 40mm restriction in the intake, it's a waste of time trying to improve the exhaust system.

Save the money, sell the egas buy a regular falcon and put a vapor injection system on it.
Even completely stock it will be faster then a modified egas car.


I'll beg to differ a bit here.....the egas engine is still a BF Barra engine, and as such, can be modified to get LOTS of horsepower, infact, as a bonus, it already has higher compression and the same pistons and rods as an F6 Typhoon. BUT the egas system itself is very restrictive. As mentioned, a vapour injection system would be good, better still would be liquid gas injection, but even a basic converter/mixer setup that is well sorted could be better. an Impco Model L converter and a 225 Mixer would probably be a good place to start. The converter can be mounted somewhere else in the engine bay to allow room for the extractors too. Infact I beleve there's no reason you couldnt add a Turbo if you did some reaseach and thought about it carefully, I'm sure a flash tune would handle the computer side of things, but there may be a bit too much compression so you might have to run low boost.

Just my 2c,

Gab


The short answer is no.

It's just not posible to upgrade an egas to SVI.
And impco 225 is still no better in terms of flow then a good 43mm venturi mixer. It's just that at lower airflow the impco stuff becomes smaller to provide good signal strenth.

Then due the need for vehicles built 2004 on tobe fitted with an emissions certified kit and there are currently not certified kits to 'upgrade' the Egas your hand are pretty well tied.

No mater what you do with an Egas motor it will always be strangled by the mixer and will never make the same power dollar for dollar or mod for mod as the petrol version.

How much money to you think it will cost to gain back the 30kw that the egas is lacking behind the petrol falcon?
Now go spend that fitting SVI to a petrol falcon and you'll have smoother power, better economy, basically an all round nicer car to drive.

Hence if you have an egas car and want to go faster and you have the money to waste on mods, it's a far smarter idea to sell it and buy a regular falcon and fit SVI.

 

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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:54 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
Gab1 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
The egas is pretty much the god of slow. While it's trying to pull air through a 40mm restriction in the intake, it's a waste of time trying to improve the exhaust system.

Save the money, sell the egas buy a regular falcon and put a vapor injection system on it.
Even completely stock it will be faster then a modified egas car.


I'll beg to differ a bit here.....the egas engine is still a BF Barra engine, and as such, can be modified to get LOTS of horsepower, infact, as a bonus, it already has higher compression and the same pistons and rods as an F6 Typhoon. BUT the egas system itself is very restrictive. As mentioned, a vapour injection system would be good, better still would be liquid gas injection, but even a basic converter/mixer setup that is well sorted could be better. an Impco Model L converter and a 225 Mixer would probably be a good place to start. The converter can be mounted somewhere else in the engine bay to allow room for the extractors too. Infact I beleve there's no reason you couldnt add a Turbo if you did some reaseach and thought about it carefully, I'm sure a flash tune would handle the computer side of things, but there may be a bit too much compression so you might have to run low boost.

Just my 2c,

Gab


The short answer is no.

It's just not posible to upgrade an egas to SVI.
Why? Surely whatever fits a petrol BF engine will fit an Egas one? Why not fit the Petrol inlet manifold if this is an issue?

And impco 225 is still no better in terms of flow then a good 43mm venturi mixer. It's just that at lower airflow the impco stuff becomes smaller to provide good signal strenth.Why not fit a Gas reasearch throttle body or an Impco 425? Is it not emmisions legal?

Then due the need for vehicles built 2004 on tobe fitted with an emissions certified kit and there are currently not certified kits to 'upgrade' the Egas your hand are pretty well tied.
Does the egas motor need to comply to more stringent emmisions regulations than the petrol motor? Otherwise why cant you just fit anything that fits on a petrol version? Also there's some pretty fancy lambada control units and things out there, cant these adjust mixtures to suit, based on the oxygen sensor reading?

No mater what you do with an Egas motor it will always be strangled by the mixer and will never make the same power dollar for dollar or mod for mod as the petrol version.

Fit a larger mixer, or isnt it legal?

How much money to you think it will cost to gain back the 30kw that the egas is lacking behind the petrol falcon?
Now go spend that fitting SVI to a petrol falcon and you'll have smoother power, better economy, basically an all round nicer car to drive.


Probably a good point. But I'd have thought the LPG version would be fairly easy to get going good. I'm sorry to argue here, but I'm just trying to learn....so dont take it personally haha.

Gab

Hence if you have an egas car and want to go faster and you have the money to waste on mods, it's a far smarter idea to sell it and buy a regular falcon and fit SVI.
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Gab1 wrote:

It's just not posible to upgrade an egas to SVI.
Why? Surely whatever fits a petrol BF engine will fit an Egas one? Why not fit the Petrol inlet manifold if this is an issue?

SVI systems don't have a stand alone ECU, they simply look at the petrol injector pules and use that to work out the needed LPG injector pules. You need a fully functioning petrol system for SVI to work.


Quote:
And impco 225 is still no better in terms of flow then a good 43mm venturi mixer. It's just that at lower airflow the impco stuff becomes smaller to provide good signal strenth.Why not fit a Gas reasearch throttle body or an Impco 425? Is it not emmisions legal?


The thing with early gas systems be it impco/GRA/or any of the mixer ring systems, is they all still need the 'venturi effect' to operate. You can't just keep making the mixers bigger as it creates problems with low engine speed/low throttle % operation. You can't get a strong enough low speed 'signal' from a mixer that isn't restrictive at higher RPM.


Quote:
Then due the need for vehicles built 2004 on tobe fitted with an emissions certified kit and there are currently not certified kits to 'upgrade' the Egas your hand are pretty well tied.
Does the egas motor need to comply to more stringent emmisions regulations than the petrol motor? Otherwise why cant you just fit anything that fits on a petrol version? Also there's some pretty fancy lambada control units and things out there, cant these adjust mixtures to suit, based on the oxygen sensor reading?

You probably could, but the point is unless it is a certified kit you can't do it, and no supplier is going to waste money on getting a kit certified for use on a factory LPG car.

Quote:
No mater what you do with an Egas motor it will always be strangled by the mixer and will never make the same power dollar for dollar or mod for mod as the petrol version.

Fit a larger mixer, or isnt it legal?

See above answer about mixer size. But basically IF a larger mixer could be used it would already be there.

Quote:
Probably a good point. But I'd have thought the LPG version would be fairly easy to get going good. I'm sorry to argue here, but I'm just trying to learn....so dont take it personally haha.

Again strangled the mixer.

 

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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:29 pm 
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So basically what you are saying is, anything is possible, it's just a cost vs benifet thing?

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:40 am 
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Gab1 wrote:
So basically what you are saying is, anything is possible, it's just a cost vs benifet thing?
Gab



tickford_6 wrote:
It's not worth the time and money to fit them.
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Anything is possible guys just depends on how much much time and money you want to throw at it and in my case...lots!!! ahahaha.

Image

Those extractors are the pacemaker 4490`s not sure about the 4495.

Image

Its currently at autotech being tuned for the 1000hp supercharger bolted to the side of it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:31 pm 
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for the supercharge did u have to change the converter and whats else have you do to it
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:04 am 
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The top pic he was still using a mixer ring setup,
The other with the supercharger it has a injected lpg kit on it.

How much power did it make in the top pics form ?
and obviously when tuned would like to know the charger setup as well.

W2A inter cooler as well... how much boost you running?
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 Post subject: Re: extractors on bf egas
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:03 am 
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The vialle converter was replaced with two svi converters....a haltech ecu was piggybacked to the egas ecu two run the 12 svi injectors.

The top picture had between 160-170rwkw,it had everything you see plus stage two crow cams.

So the vialle converter can support some power,but dosent work with boost.

It had a raptor supercharger on it previously and made 236rwkw @8psi on autotechs dyno

The f1d procharger is a custom setup i desighned and fabricated the bracket myself.

 

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