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LPG: having second thoughts - your experiences? 

 

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 Post subject: LPG: having second thoughts - your experiences?
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:40 am 
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After being keen to get LPG installed and take advantage of the cheaper prices i'm having second thoughts.

Basically i've talked to a few people who have said the falcons throw too much fuel into the stock engine, if you add a cam, exhaust, extractors, intake (ie my car in about 2 weeks time) not only will you gain performance but you will also gain fuel economy.

The bloke I spoke to about the LPG seems convinced that i will not lose any power but i am not so sure.

So i'm kinda stuck - does lpg really hurt your performance that much? Am i better running it off petrol with those mods?

Your experiences would be great.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:52 am 
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Duel fuel - switch it back and forth mate.

For the savings of LPG are you really going to winge if you lose a bit of power? The power loss grealy depends on the gear installed and the tune.

 

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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:30 pm 
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it depends mate i have both i love gas for economy and fuel for power plus with fuel prices u can't go wrong

 

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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:07 pm 
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too right that just completely slipped my mind....... do'h

2.5 grand and a 2 grand rebate. couldn't believe the wait though, booked it in a couple days ago and can't get in until the 11th of july.

cheers.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:46 pm 
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you will lose some power, when the gas is added it makes parts of the intake smaller, which reduces your fuel economy, i my self REALLY regret putting the beast on gas, in fact im looking at pulling it off soon, if you want better economy add a better intake like a boxed pod filter or similar, will improve quite alot!!

 

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:27 pm 
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LPG can be a saint, or LPG can be a sinner.

As above, the amount of power loss and the resultant fuel consumption depends heavily on the gas system chosen for your application and the standard of installation/tune provided by your gas fitter.

A single point (venturi or air valve) system will restrict the airflow in your intake manifold like a carburettor and will therefore reduce power at the top end where the largest volume of air is entering the engine at any one time. This power loss will be felt if you're running the engine on petrol as well, but the difference is minimal in everyday driving. Milti-point injected systems (SVI or LPLI) do not require equipment to be installed in the upper intake manifold and therefore does not interfere with the petrol side of things.

Because of the way the gas is delivered into the engine, an engine fitted with a single point LPG system is prone to backfire through the intake manifold. If you have one of these systems, it is critical that you keep your gas system in tune and your ignition system in tip-top shape. Multi-point systems eliminate the backfire risk, as there will only be a very small amount of gas vapour present in the intake manifold at any one time.

Consumption-wise, expect LPG consumption to be around 30% higher than petrol consumption with a single point system and around 15% higher than petrol consumption with a multi-point injected system.

Regards,
Dave

 

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:48 pm 
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cheers on the advice, is there any way to open up the restriction?

because it kinda puts the mods to increase airflow to nothing if there is a restiction there - I've got a larger airbox, pod, XH snorkel and a 3" pipe from the bottom of the car into the airbox. but if at the end of the line there is a large restriction then it would seem that these are all for nothing.
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:05 pm 
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well i dunno why the other guys lpg cars are burning up so much but i can get 374kms out of every tank when im on lpg plus mate if u have a performance head gasket the lpg works even better runs smoothly

 

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:40 pm 
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mystery wrote:
cheers on the advice, is there any way to open up the restriction?


Not if you're going with a single point system, because the restriction creates a vacuum which is required to draw the fuel into the engine. This vacuum also provides a signal to the gas computer to assist with fuel metering.

Choosing the right venturi size is like choosing a carburettor back in the old days. Carburettors that are too small will just choke your intake airflow and carburettors that are too large will have problems at idle and lower engine speeds because of inadequate pressure differential.

Regards,
Dave

 

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:18 pm 
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I have had gas for 10 years and driven nearly 400,000klm. no major worries. My system is stuffed but still works and has saved me about $38,000 in petrol
Crikey I just did a spreadsheet to compare.

My el had a similar but better performing sprintgas set up than my ef. Get a gas research mixer for better power and economy.

best of all injected gas.

LPG critics be silent

 

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 Post subject: LPG in EL wagon
Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:41 am 
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Bought a factory duel fuel EL wagon at auction 2 years ago. Last year (2007) went from Newcastle to Melbourne, on gas, cost of trip was $120.00, AND I had a 13ft caravan on the back! It doesnt get any better than that. Normally I get around 280 / 320 klms on a tank (60 litres) . The big problem of course is the price of LPG. Every time the petrol price rises - guess what - up goes LPG. If I was considering a new conversion, I think I would be (A) consulting the old crystal ball to see where lpg prices were going, and (B) looking at fuel saving devices etc.
The second issue is the availablity of lpg in some areas. It's generally easy to find, but it is essential to keep a few gallons (showing my age!)
in the tank just in case. I had a mate who bought a dedicated lpg Falcon for his missus who kept running out of fuel - big bills for towing!
I could go into a rant here about fuel companies, government pilicy, tax etc., but of course there is no point until "we the people" get together to address the problem as a cohesive lobby group.

 

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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:55 am 
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I had my EB XR8 converted to Gas Research and lost a massive 2 rwkw. There is plenty of potention to get more power out of it if I wanted too.
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:37 am 
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LTDHO wrote:
I had my EB XR8 converted to Gas Research and lost a massive 2 rwkw. There is plenty of potention to get more power out of it if I wanted too.


Yair, I find that particularly towing the van if I come to a BBH (bloody big hill) it helps if I swith to petrol. All things considered though, it still has ample power for general driving. I have been looking at putting one of those fuel gizmos on that swirl the air in the inlet and supposedly give more power. Could be that one or two of these would make up for the loss of horses. I remember back in the "glory days" when fuel was 30 cents a GALLON, and we all had twin and triple strombergs on our fj's that you could get a couple of similar devices, one simply pushed down the throat of the carby and reduced the diameter, and another pushed into the ent of the tailpipe (I kid you not) and forced the exhaust to exit in a vortex pattern. Believe it or not, these things actually WORKED. The other thing tat we used to increase fuel economy and powere was what they called a "jetfire" spark plug. No visible electrodo on the bottom, just three holes, and the spark used to shoot out of these holes like lightning. They worked a treat, but vanished after a few years. We had lots of nice toys in the 60's!, wish I could go back ..............................

 

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 Post subject: LPG
Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:51 pm 
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I would definatly go LPG at the moment. You will lose about 30%-35% economy on a mixer setup and lose about 20% power mainly top end. LPG injection 5% to 15% ive been told and power loss quite minimal. LPG will go up and if you go for a standard setup thing for every litre at 65c is really only 2/3 of a fuel litre(as far as economy goes so it is like paying $1.05cpl for LPG. If they add the tax higher than what they say it is only worthwile if fuel keeps on climbing.
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:40 pm 
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mm its bloody rediculous.

after a quick google i can't find any sydney places that do injected lpg. Any idea on the price? although i am sure that it would be substantially more..

the system i am contemplating getting is an airod venturi if that helps anyone..

but with extractors and cam going in within a week or two, i've read this improves economy. And then yep if they up the taxes on lpg.. plus it is an 89 EA so i have concerns over the reliability if she goes on gas. im so bloody confused.

also i am wondering.. even if performance does go down on lpg, seeing how the potential system is dual fuel then should it run as per normal on petty?
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