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new intake - CMS style - how should it be done? 

 

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 Post subject: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:16 pm 
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hi,

i rand jow at crescent motorsports about putting a stage 2 cm in my duel fuel EF,

I asked if it would be worth it given the restriction of the 'elbow' impco intake and he said there would be no point running a cam without improving the air intake.

the current impco l setup can only flow 200 horsies at the engine which means the cam wouldn't be worthwhile given its putting out about 130kw (guess in my setup) at the wheels

so he suggested using a GRA throttle body with a BA or AU intake system.

I understand how the bigger GRA throttle body will flow more air but i'm unsure as to how the BA or AU gear comes into play.

Ideas anyone? Anyone has this setup?

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:55 pm 
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EL, AU and B series have a different air intake setup to the EF's.

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:57 am 
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northerlythechamp wrote:
i'm unsure as to how the BA or AU gear comes into play.

Ideas anyone? Anyone has this setup?


Have you looked at the BA and AU air intake set up? If not, start Googling some images.

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:47 am 
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If I was you I'd go for the ba much smoother, rounder, bigger. Than other models. Definately worth a try.
Although it might not make a huge difference. Every litlle bit helps
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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:48 am 
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yep i looked at them and it shouldn't be too difficult, the ba ones look a better flow.

i am sure it will make a big difference, having driven the car with original intake before and after LPG - definitely notice loss after just 2k rpm. Main reason is that its the impco L intake which is rediculous.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ba%2 ... ineBay.jpg

found pics of set ups for those interested

http://www.gasresearch.com.au/ford6cyl.JPG
http://www.gasresearch.com.au/g003.jpg

i'm kind of confused though. Apparently i can use the throttle body from GRA and keep the rest of the impco system. is this as simple as just removing the impco mixer and feeding the lines into the GRA TB?

thanks
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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Apparently u can but GRA converter is positive feed and impco is negative feed so dont know if that will ffect anything.

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:20 pm 
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MICKYYYY wrote:
Apparently u can but GRA converter is positive feed and impco is negative feed so dont know if that will ffect anything.

WRONG
both systems are negative feed

omvl, landi etc are positive feeds

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:58 am 
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macxr8 wrote:
MICKYYYY wrote:
Apparently u can but GRA converter is positive feed and impco is negative feed so dont know if that will ffect anything.

WRONG
both systems are negative feed

omvl, landi etc are positive feeds


well that is a good thing.

i've now seen a few of the set ups after looking hard and wide for pic of them, it seems as though the GRA TB can just replace the standard TB. Thus air flow is the same as normal petrol since you can run a 3 inch or BA or whatever tube from the airbox to the GRA TB. Is this correct?

In that case then regardless of the quality of the impco converter, i will be done with the L bend on the mixer, thus air flow on petrol will be the same as before (or very similar)?

Whole reason is that i want to put a decent cam in and the impco L mixer can only put out a max of 200hp at the engine on petrol/gas (on petrol since it acts as a restriction on air)

this is correct?

on that basis I will then have enough air to run a decent cam with sufficient air going in?

thanks
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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:25 am 
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If you can just bolt on a GRA TB, obviously with the TPS mounted on it, that's the way i'd be going, as they are well proven in performance circles. You just need to know which size GRA to buy, there is a couple.

I have a GRA 440 on my Turbo 173ci Torana. Engine isn't running yet, but it can supply more than enough fuel & air for my setup.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:57 am 
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I have a GRA S510 ready to bolt onto my 4.0. t/b is same size as factory. Minor rooting around to mount TPS, and ISC.
Found the impco was holding motor back. Made 136rwkw on LPG 140 on petrol.

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:14 am 
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macxr8 wrote:
I have a GRA S510 ready to bolt onto my 4.0. t/b is same size as factory. Minor rooting around to mount TPS, and ISC.
Found the impco was holding motor back. Made 136rwkw on LPG 140 on petrol.


yep i can imagine how much it was holding her back if you manage to push out 140 with the dodgy L intake, i'm not touching then engine until it is gone.

could you please write up a statement or similar of what you did to install? would be very very helpful, pics would be great to if you could be bothered.

i rang up a place today who supplied GRA gear, they said I have to use the GRA converter and mixer for it to be effective, but then conceded that the spring in the impco converter could be changed to make it compatible with the GRA TB.

so pretty much my shopping list is including the spring for the impco converter, the GRA throttle body, and a big wad of cash for whoever wants to install it and alter the tps and isc and give it a tune
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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:02 pm 
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macxr8 wrote:
I have a GRA S510 ready to bolt onto my 4.0. t/b is same size as factory. Minor rooting around to mount TPS, and ISC.
Found the impco was holding motor back. Made 136rwkw on LPG 140 on petrol.


Those power figures with the GRA or before it?

I've apparently got 130RWKW on LPG & 132 on petrol according to the LPG places dyno, that probably hasn't been tuned in many years, but it's a fair bit up on stock, was 90RWKW before my mods, acc to that dyno, which is all i really care about. lol.

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:52 pm 
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ToranaGuy wrote:
macxr8 wrote:
I have a GRA S510 ready to bolt onto my 4.0. t/b is same size as factory. Minor rooting around to mount TPS, and ISC.
Found the impco was holding motor back. Made 136rwkw on LPG 140 on petrol.


Those power figures with the GRA or before it?

I've apparently got 130RWKW on LPG & 132 on petrol according to the LPG places dyno, that probably hasn't been tuned in many years, but it's a fair bit up on stock, was 90RWKW before my mods, acc to that dyno, which is all i really care about. lol.


thats before. made 117 before mods
re figures..as long as you use the same dyno for all mods, then thats good. According to Joe @ CMS, we should see high 170's with an edit and GRA setup

 

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 Post subject: Re: new intake - CMS style - how should it be done?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:32 pm 
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macxr8 wrote:
thats before. made 117 before mods
re figures..as long as you use the same dyno for all mods, then thats good. According to Joe @ CMS, we should see high 170's with an edit and GRA setup


Cool. I take it the edit is for ignition timing - to be better on LPG? High 170's would be nice! If i wasn't playing with other car's as well, i'd get a better vapor injection system & turbo my eb. But i really have to try & stop modding my daily driver so i can work on my other car's, lol.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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