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petrol plus HHO? 

 

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 Post subject: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:25 pm 
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just wanted to know if anyone is running HHO as well as petrol in their falcons (preferably ba series), and how their finding it.
for those that don't know, HHO can be produced and piped into your airbox (before the filter) and according to American websites, forums and youtube it will give you 10-40% better fuel economy depending on the set up your running.
incase some of you right now are thinking " :? wtf is he on about??"
HHO is water in its gas state, however in this state it is not water vapor because the bonds between the atoms have been broken due to electrolysis, this gas unlike water vapor is highly flammable.
it can be produced by creating a "hydrogen generator" and running it off your alternator. hydrogen generator works by using a series of stainless steel plates, these plates are suspended in normal tap water (with a bit of bi-carb soda) electrical current is applied to these plates (half run on negative, the other half on positive).

now i know the generator does work, i whipped a basic one up this arvo using 4 aluminum foil plates and running on medium voltage and low amps it worked... slowly but it worked. the real one im planing on making will be 15+ stainless steel plates running on 12-14V and 20amps

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:30 pm 
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never herd of.

got any links to news storys or build guides?

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:35 pm 
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sounds interesting, never herd of it

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:18 pm 
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I think that they tried it out on mythbusters, in a Pontiac Cutlass Supreme. I think there was a slight gain in fuel economy. But, I think that they made the point that the power drain on the electrical system cancelled out the gain from the HHO.

Then they ran the car on pure Hydrogen from the cylinder...until it backfired massively out of the carby! :lol:

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:28 pm 
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its been around for a while, fun fact the first guy to run his car purely on HHO gas, drove across the USA using 44galons of water. he was also killed by poisoning shortly after.
i know if the car has a carby and no fuel emission sensors its a simple plug in off you go, but because the ba has a emission sensor, i need to get around it, so far im thinking a flash, im getting a xcal 3 pretty soon so i should be able to get a flash tune to remove that sensor.

 

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Visual mods: 19" rim, lower grill mesh, oil pressure and vacuum gauges, engine bay lighting, foot well lights
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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Quote:
I think that they tried it out on mythbusters, in a Pontiac Cutlass Supreme. I think there was a slight gain in fuel economy. But, I think that they made the point that the power drain on the electrical system cancelled out the gain from the HHO.


i watched a short part of that episode on youtube, they did make a couple of mistakes from what i saw.
firstly the idea is to have as much surface area in plates as possible, they just used a single cylinder rod.
and yes just plain water will work, but it works much better when you add a catalyst, bi-carb soda works wonders and is cheap. watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydEkV-E0 ... ature=fvwp

on the side already my aluminum plates in the generator i made this arvo are showing a ugly build up of oxidization :( however they still work :D im guessing this is why stainless steel is used over aluminum.

 

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Performance mods: typhoon + territory pipe with K&N filter, full exhaust, BPR generic tune, lowered, xr6t front brakes, territory rear brakes
Visual mods: 19" rim, lower grill mesh, oil pressure and vacuum gauges, engine bay lighting, foot well lights
some of my main mods

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:26 pm 
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there was a few threads setup in the lpg forum about this a few years ago. 'members' were trading ideas about electrolytic devices hooked in to the intake. Personally, I think they were pushing something, always talk of buying stuff off mobs on ebay.

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:31 pm 
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ford-lpg-hydrogen-hho-cng-conversions-f44/boost-mileage-with-hho-gas-t59449-80.html?hilit=water

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:33 pm 
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I suggest when you do try the HHO out, try not to over produce the hydrogen gas. They are highly explosive.

I know some researchers who are currently working on a "on-the-fly" HHO production whereby the car runs purely on HHO nothing else. Current ways of doing it seems rather dangerous and some what in-efficient. This is due to using just standard material you can grab from your hardware store and this can cause many flaws and very unpredictable. So now they are trying to make it safer and more efficient.

You can probably produce enough H2 gas to see a slight reduction in fuel economy, but as mentioned above, the strain on your alternator pretty much cancels it out. You need to figure out how to produce H2 gas more efficiently, whereby less energy is required. To be able to increase production of HHO to actually see a massive gain in efficiency, you'll need to start looking at molecular level. Using things such as membranes and/or catalysts (homogenous or heterogeneous) can increase the production of HHO with less power consumption.

You'd need good funding, a lab and some serious chemistry to back up your efforts/findings/theory if you really want this stuff to work effectively and possible make profit of it.

In saying all that, most things invented are from backyard inventions with a touch of ingenuity...but you know, no safety risk assessment, possible death, law suits if s**t hits the fan.

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:51 pm 
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yer theirs allot of stuff on ebay about it, but knowing ebay its probably as good as those AMAZING LAG FREE electronic turbo/superchargers. building it myself i can do it fairly cheaply, and if it does fail (90% chance :lol: ) at least my money won't be going to ebay scams.

hears how im going to build it... when/if i build it
-you need two main components the generator and the bubbler (pretty much a one way valve to prevent KABOOM
-ill use PVC piping for both as its cheap and durable
-long stainless steel plates (as many as the pipe will allow)
-ill run the pipe up the typhoon intake snorkel, this way if it doesn't work im not cutting anything, then the following week ill tap the pipe into the rubber tube for the PVC just before the TB (i have a spare tube)
-it will be wired up to the ignition so that it only runs when the car is switched on, their will also be a kill switch inside the car.

heres the main problem im seeing, the amount of air the car sucks in compared to the HHO gas produced.

 

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BA XR6
Performance mods: typhoon + territory pipe with K&N filter, full exhaust, BPR generic tune, lowered, xr6t front brakes, territory rear brakes
Visual mods: 19" rim, lower grill mesh, oil pressure and vacuum gauges, engine bay lighting, foot well lights
some of my main mods

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:16 pm 
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From what I know, the more surface area of cathodes/anodes in the liquid the better. the distance between them is also critical. Think of a single molecule of h20 between the two pieces of electrode, the charge will rip it apart, lets just say down the centre. You'd never get plates like this, esp in a car while on road, but the closer the better. One set of electrodes I've seen for the job was like something you see in a cat converter. Very dense coil of fins & plates.

Voltage is key too. I think I saw a vid of a guy trying different voltages up to 38v or something? It looked like a can of soft drink opened too fast there was that much gas being given off.

There were a few people using a catalysis in the water (vinegar) to aid the production of gas.

In all I don't think that hho gives more power, but I think it can create a cleaner pop/bang in the cylinder which then creates the better efficiencies & power people talk of.

Good luck if you do it & post lots of pics

 

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:43 pm 
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current (amps) is more important then volts, and the catalyst is baking soda or KOH NaOH. i used NaOH it literally ate my aluminum foil plates on my quick whip up generator :P . about a 3mm gap is what you need, any less and the bubbles just stick to the plates, any further and you start to increase the resistance of current.
i really wanna try this out but at the same time im not to keen on it having any chance of messing my car up. im also getting the car tuned in a month or so, and i don't want to be running HHO in the tune...
so that brings me to the next closest thing to a car engine that isn't heavily relied apon... the lawn mower :twisted:

i checked out the price of stainless steel sheet metal and HOLY s**t it's expensive, its like 4 times the price of anything. a 300x900 sheet from bunnings cost about $47 bucks. and im trying to build this thing on budget.
if anyone wants to give this a go, ive found that one big generator doesn't really fit to nicely in a B series engine bay, however with the power steering overflow cap removed, two smaller ones would fit nicely in between the power steering bottle and the battery.

 

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BA XR6
Performance mods: typhoon + territory pipe with K&N filter, full exhaust, BPR generic tune, lowered, xr6t front brakes, territory rear brakes
Visual mods: 19" rim, lower grill mesh, oil pressure and vacuum gauges, engine bay lighting, foot well lights
some of my main mods

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:32 am 
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i've been looking into this myself for my LPG BA Wagon........during my research i found this website:

http://www.umpquaenergy.com/hydrogengen ... rator.html

free plans and destructions for a hho generator......they claim up to 90% efficiency which is bloody good........its not a big generator, but its not a small one either.........hope it helps a bit.....
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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:14 pm 
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im not going to do it on my current car, not game enough :lol: but i reckon two generators on the side of the battery would work.

 

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Performance mods: typhoon + territory pipe with K&N filter, full exhaust, BPR generic tune, lowered, xr6t front brakes, territory rear brakes
Visual mods: 19" rim, lower grill mesh, oil pressure and vacuum gauges, engine bay lighting, foot well lights
some of my main mods

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 Post subject: Re: petrol plus HHO?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:20 pm 
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i'd use a Heavy Duty Alternator......or two even......
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