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 Post subject: FG Falcon - v8 supercar
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:17 pm 
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g'day all,

I have heard a rumour (on RPM June 1) that the chassis of the FG falcon does not meet the specs for the chassic size for the V8 supercar FG falcon. The chassis is longer and wider.

Has anyone heard anything??
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:21 pm 
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they will prolly do what holden did (ran the VY chassis with VE Body) so possible they might run the BA chassis with the FG body

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:40 pm 
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I saw a news story about this...

evidently, Much like the VE Commodore Supercar, the chassis and body must be modified to fit the "Blueprint" specficiations, for parity, so that neither side has an advantage.

The Commodore had to be modded from the standard VE bodyshell, to maintain parity with the current BF shell, and as such, the FG shell will need to be changed to match the modified VE's shell to validate the homoglation. (Stop me if I'm off the track here.)


Its getting more and more NASCAR every year.... I hope doesn't get to the point where the lights are just painted on, and the bodyshells don't look anything like the Road cars... sigh.
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:07 pm 
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I think it is a joke, they should keep them as close to the factory car as possible, maybe even use the same V8 as the production vehicle etc.
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:27 pm 
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I hope they don't go using the same V8 as in the factory cars.Ford will get their a***'s handed to them on a platter.
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:01 pm 
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Or make them fit only engines that each manufacturer actually makes......

Holden may well have a problem there...... They may have to change thier name to Chevrolden to comply!

Or a modular 5.4 V8 vs a 3.6 puss bucket?

Ford also has quite close ties to Aston Martin, so we could look at putting a 6 ltr V12 from the DB9 in there??

I think it is silly that people get so heated about who wins V8 Supercars, when none of the cars suspension, driveline or, anything really, actually bear any resemblance to a road car at all. (They do look very tough tho!)

Of course all these options would necessitate a change of name of the series from V8 Supercars, to I dunno.... Vgreat Supercars??

Just a thought!

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Just wonder how long until toyota gets in there and competes like nascar / formula one they have a v8 to compete but i suppose there isn't any v8 camry's getting around...

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:46 pm 
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EL XR8 wrote:
I hope they don't go using the same V8 as in the factory cars.Ford will get their a***'s handed to them on a platter.


Not quite. The only reason that the modular 5.4 is a bucket of s**t is because of emissions. Holden are going for the lazy big cubes combination whilst ford are going for the angrier small cube combo. If ford used the alluminium block 5.4 (dry sump and all) from the Ford GT road car then its game on b**ch.

I reckon using factory engines (but with almost unlimited allowable mods) would be a damn good thing for the sport as it would prove which company has the better engine package in terms of modifications.

They could also use gearboxes based on the factoy designs but with possible aftermarket casings and gear sets to handle the power. Gear ratios must remain as per factory.

As for the suspension in each car they must retain the factory layout but mounting points can be modified to a certain degree. This way the manufacturers are forced to prove which that their suspension system is the best.

And as for the rear ends they both have IRS. Again it should remain as per factory but with some provision for adjustments (again as per mounting points). Final drive ratio's may or may not be changed (see what happens there).

That's about as close to the modern version of improved production racing you will ever get in this country and is what the fans have been craving for years. Series production racing died in the a*** when the supercar scare came along. And besides, a dead stock XR8 with a flash tune, zorst, brakes, tyres and roll cage doesn't really make for an exciting race car in this day and age.
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:07 pm 
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xcabbi wrote:
EL XR8 wrote:
I hope they don't go using the same V8 as in the factory cars.Ford will get their a***'s handed to them on a platter.


Not quite. The only reason that the modular 5.4 is a bucket of s**t is because of emissions. Holden are going for the lazy big cubes combination whilst ford are going for the angrier small cube combo. If ford used the alluminium block 5.4 (dry sump and all) from the Ford GT road car then its game on b**ch.

So it's the emissions that stop it from revving high enough to actually take advantage of the flow from the DOHC heads.
And an alloy block and dry sump will fix this.
Wow.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:00 pm 
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An alloy block and dry sump will take some weight out of the front to make it handle.

As for the emissions yes an alloy block will help there as it will help reaching operating temps as soon as possible.
As for the small capacity and emissions this is where some serious understanding in fluid dynamics and chemistry comes into it. Put it this way. Its way beyond the scope of an undergraduate engineering degree so don't expect me to post up a thesis on here.

And me suggesting the alloy block and dry sump was if V8 supercars decided to piss their current engine rules off and mandate what both makes offer in their road going cars, or derivatives of those engines. My post was in response to elxr8'spost, which was in response to colin55's post if you hadn't already picked up on that.

Seedy it might pay to follow the trail and read all the posts before quoting me out of context. I thought you would have been over that by now but you've shown yourself after 4 years.
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:37 pm 
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And you've missed what I was attacking you for.
If you think a 5.4 DOHC mod motor is gonna run with an LS2, naturally aspirated, you are on crack.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:29 am 
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Steady ED wrote:
And you've missed what I was attacking you for.
If you think a 5.4 DOHC mod motor is gonna run with an LS2, naturally aspirated, you are on crack.

Agree with Jared, and they should have gone back to a Clevo base!
When they first announced the whole "BOSS" engine i thought it would be a Windsor or Clevo base... But no, they went with that piece of s**t that in comparisson to the Chev is just that! I could build a very mild Clevo that would eat that piece of s**t 5.4.

The whole idea when the BA hit the track was to gain parity between the 2, and they done just that.
If Ford had the engine range they did way back when, then we could say hey run your own engines upto a certain capacity and rev range. Running against what GM have now we'd get left for dead.
I think fans are happy with the way it is, it's a competitive field with a lot of action, and look at the last few years, the championship has come down to the last round within a handful of points, it doesn't get any closer than that.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:59 am 
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But would that Clevo or Windsor pass the emissions or CAFE muster in a road car, in the volumes they build them in?

Stroked, Hand Built, Blueprinted, and with lots of unique parts, (bad for enconomies of scale, and for support) the final Windsor in the AUIII FTes made 250Kw and 500Nm....
Great engine in its day, but not competitive with the vehicles that it has to compete with now, and there is no way it would pass upcoming emmissions laws (which is why the 4.0 6 cyl is going as well)

Aside from which, they stopped making Clevelands in '82... and they now only make crate Windsors for Racing applications.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:42 pm 
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obviously its going to take a whole new engine but with fuel going up so badly, and ford being broke, I cant see ford commiting enough money to develope a new v8, since they have a bank balance lower than mine (hard as it is to imagine one worse.)

GM started developement of the LS1 engine about a decade ago iirc.

We just have to accept that ford will not be releasing a decent V8 anytime soon from factory. Its going to be up to the modders to make em any good.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:39 pm 
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96ghia wrote:
But would that Clevo or Windsor pass the emissions or CAFE muster in a road car, in the volumes they build them in?

Stroked, Hand Built, Blueprinted, and with lots of unique parts, (bad for enconomies of scale, and for support) the final Windsor in the AUIII FTes made 250Kw and 500Nm....
Great engine in its day, but not competitive with the vehicles that it has to compete with now, and there is no way it would pass upcoming emmissions laws (which is why the 4.0 6 cyl is going as well)

Aside from which, they stopped making Clevelands in '82... and they now only make crate Windsors for Racing applications.

Thats now what we are talking about that though :P

Xcabbi thinks the 5.4 DOHC Mod motor is being held back by emissions s**t.
And that an alloy block and dry sump will turn it into an LS2 beating monster.

My contention is that "being held back my emissions" is a s**t excuse, and that the motor is in fact an utter failure at making decent naturally aspirated power, and it needs boost.
It's a small capacity 8 with DOHC that can't fcken rev!!!
It's like making a boat that can't float.
Or a gun that can't be loaded.

This all goes back to what EL XR8 said.
IF V8 Supercars went to more of a production format using the engines that their road counterparts used, FORD WOULD GET STOMPED.
End of story.

 

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