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GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto 

 

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 Post subject: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:00 pm 
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The next-generation Holden Commodore, due in 2017, could have as many gears as your old Malvern Star as automotive enemies, Ford and General Motors, have joined forces to create the world's first ten-speed automatic transmission.

The American car giants have extended a previous joint-venture transmission program, which created a series of six-speed gearboxes, to develop both nine- and 10-speed automatics that will be suitable for cars, crossovers, SUVs and trucks.

Neither company has released detailed technical information on the gearboxes, but the companies have confirmed that development has already commenced and that they will be adapted to both front-, all- and rear-drive applications.

“Engineering teams from GM and Ford have already started initial design work on these new transmissions,” said Jim Lanzon, GM vice president of global transmission engineering. “We expect these new transmissions to raise the standard of technology, performance and quality for our customers while helping drive fuel economy improvements into both companies’ future product portfolios."

“The goal is to keep hardware identical in the Ford and GM transmissions. This will maximise parts commonality and give both companies economy of scale,” said Craig Renneker, Ford’s chief engineer for transmission and driveline component and pre-program engineering. “However, we will each use our own control softwareto ensure that each transmission is carefully matched to the individual brand-specific vehicle DNA for each company.”

German transmission specialist ZF has already confirmed it is developing a nine-speed automatic gearbox and that it will debut in next year's updated Range Rover Evoque. The same gearbox will also be used by Chrysler in its new front-wheel drive 200 small sedan that's expected to premiere at the Los Angeles motor show later this year and there's speculation that BMW will adopt it for the third-generation Mini due out in 2014.

The move to nine-, and now 10, speed transmissions is the latest offensive from car makers to drastically slash fuel consumption while improving performance from smaller capacity turbo charged engines.

source: smh.com.au

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:03 pm 
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bring back the old 3 on the tree I say...
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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:27 pm 
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So will the car have a steering wheel or just handle bars with ribbons hanging off the end?

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:46 pm 
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This seems stupid. Why not just use a CVT?

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:04 pm 
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I believe CVT transmissions are still limited in their range (i.e. they are only constantly variable between a minimum and maximum point). This is particularly in the units designed to handle high torque ratings which have narrower ranges. I think Nissan gets around this by essentially putting two or three CVT units together, but then you are adding more complexity/$$$ and not as feasible economically.

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:25 pm 
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bloody hell, still gotta learn to drive a 5 speed :P

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:49 am 
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TyLeR3397 wrote:
This seems stupid. Why not just use a CVT?

They can't handle much torque. 300 nm was about the limit a few years ago and i don't think its gone much further.
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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Quote:
The goal is to keep hardware identical in the Ford and GM transmissions.

A step closer to the "One car" initiative?

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:41 pm 
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sorry, this just seems dumb. I get that, in theory at least, it should get marginally better economy but, seriously, 10 speeds on an average car is nuts. Imagine driving around town, cruising normally up to 50 or 60 kph - 10 shifts to top, then slow down for lights, then change up another 10 speeds to get back to 50 k's....Jesus I thought 4 speed auto commies were bad for hunting up and down the gearbox - this'd be very irritating to drive.....I get the distinct impression this is just a marketing driven idea, another number to throw around in adverts like 6 airbags or whatever....

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:11 pm 
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I get it, in theory. Motors have always had to compensate for large "steps" in basic gearboxes. Ideally, you'd run a motor at a point that gets a balance of the lowest specific fuel consumption and best torque and the gearboxes would get everything up to speed. That's why trucks have got 18 speed boxes for instance.

I don't know how much more the internal combustion engine can be refined for lower fuel consumption, so this is the other side of the equation...often neglected because its all too hard and less sexy than a motor...gearboxes.

Don't worry where there's a computer it can be tweaked!
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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:03 am 
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tearlejc wrote:
sorry, this just seems dumb. I get that, in theory at least, it should get marginally better economy but, seriously, 10 speeds on an average car is nuts. Imagine driving around town, cruising normally up to 50 or 60 kph - 10 shifts to top, then slow down for lights, then change up another 10 speeds to get back to 50 k's....Jesus I thought 4 speed auto commies were bad for hunting up and down the gearbox - this'd be very irritating to drive.....I get the distinct impression this is just a marketing driven idea, another number to throw around in adverts like 6 airbags or whatever....


These new multiple speed gearboxes can shift up or down multiple gears at the one time, they may only need to shift a couple of times to reach top gear.
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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:24 am 
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Imagine the servicing cost on a 10 speed auto let alone a rebuild !!! :shock: :shock:
You will need to refinance your house. :|

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:12 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:
.Jesus I thought 4 speed auto commies were bad


They are bad, and also ancient.

Try driving something newer, the 6 speed and 8 speed ZF's are great, there's no hunting as the gear box isn't trying to figure out if 2nd or 3rd is right, it'll have 1 or 2 other options to choose from, thus not having to hunt around them all.

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:55 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
tearlejc wrote:
.Jesus I thought 4 speed auto commies were bad


They are bad, and also ancient.

Try driving something newer, the 6 speed and 8 speed ZF's are great, there's no hunting as the gear box isn't trying to figure out if 2nd or 3rd is right, it'll have 1 or 2 other options to choose from, thus not having to hunt around them all.



this is all a bit new to me...what already has an 8 speed trannie? I seriously thought 4 speed auto's were all they'd got up to....thats what you get for driving an oldie!!

 

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 Post subject: Re: GM and Ford join forces to develop world's first 10sp auto
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:20 am 
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tearlejc wrote:
data_mine wrote:
tearlejc wrote:
.Jesus I thought 4 speed auto commies were bad


They are bad, and also ancient.

Try driving something newer, the 6 speed and 8 speed ZF's are great, there's no hunting as the gear box isn't trying to figure out if 2nd or 3rd is right, it'll have 1 or 2 other options to choose from, thus not having to hunt around them all.



this is all a bit new to me...what already has an 8 speed trannie? I seriously thought 4 speed auto's were all they'd got up to....thats what you get for driving an oldie!!


BMW's Jags etc. Lexus. etc.

BMW had the ZF6 speed years before we got them in the BF's.

 

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