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 Post subject: Dynos
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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http://www.mainlineauto.com.au/ Versus http://www.dyno.com.au/dyno/controller


I've been in contact with a guy who swears by the mainline dynos and not the dyno dynamics dynamometer.

By reading the mainline website they don't allow the operators to fudge results its all calculated by the machine.

The results of this are that a Dyno Dynamics dyno said his car pulled 193rwkw and then it went onto a Mainline dyno and got 174rwkw. It wasn't on the same day I don't think. He also was telling me that almost constantly the mainline reads about 20-25rwkw less than a Dyno Dynamics one.

Because it is more accurate ??? tuners are able to tune more effectively. And after a tune on a Mainline dyno the Dyno Dynamics one read more rwkw than it was possible by the tuner due to the inaccurate ?????readings of the latter dyno.

Anyones thoughts or opinions?

Not after a war of which dyno is better, just the facts.

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Any dyno can be fudged, some easier than others.

No matter what, you can't compare the output from different dynos.

They're only of use, for tuning, where there's before and after results, doesn't matter if it shows 5kw then 15kw, or 200kw then 210kw, you still gained 10kw.

And for dyno days, where everyone gets a fair go (assuming a trustworthy operator).

Ask Bunter on here, at a dyno day back in Feb, we asked the operator to pull a low score, he was able to cut his 'real' (or is 'expected' better) score in half! without doing anything to the car.

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:10 am 
Getting Side Ways
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yeah its in the resistance settings. higher resistance nets higher kw but lower NM readings, and vice versa. its how tuners who claim higher kw get their numbers. you will find mocky has his set a little higher than nuetral resistance for marketing purposes.

I know coz when my mates work did mine on the dyno (for afr's) they had the settings so high it read half NM and twice the rw kw.

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:57 pm 
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Mock doesn't his dyno set on anything, I don't think he could set it to read higher if he wanted too :lol:
Don't believe everything the bandwagon says ;)
It's an ancient dyno, if you've ever seen a JMM dyno sheet you'll see it actually draws the power figure on with a pencil, I s**t you not.

To answer the threads question, load of s**t, dyno will have zero bearing on the quality of the tune IMO.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:31 am 
Getting Side Ways
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erm.. yes you can, ive seen it done. And while it wont make a better/worse tune, its not what franks asking, he was after power reading.

may be hard to swallow as something posted by an unknown on an internet forum, but I s**t you not.

kw is just an amount of energy produced. by increasing resistance you can generate more power.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:00 am 
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I'm not debating you can set the correction factor and ramp rate on a dyno dynamics or similar dyno differently to read a higher figure.
What I'm telling you is Mock can't.
It has no computer control AFAIK.
The only way he could make it read higher is by letting the car ride up on the rollers, and thats only a couple of kw with the power we are talking about.
Yes its inaccurate.
Is it intentionally inaccurate as you are claiming? No.
Mock bashing is sooooo 2003.

And Timmehs original question is about the accuracy of the dyno affecting the ability to tune the car.
Which it doesn't.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:30 am 
Getting Side Ways
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kk, bit im still technically stuck in 2001 due to the early onset of fogeyism, so Im ahead of my time.

Not that I was claiming much, my probably kinda had it set as a non fact.

Just drew a paralel knowing that you can make them read higher figures, and his making higher than normal figures.

Never seen his unit. ONly one Ive ever seen is old mates "roadmaster"... and you think mocky's is ancient. This one has the graphics power of an atari 2600.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:44 am 
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To try and clarify what I was getting at (after I re-read my post).
After a tune on a DD dyno the max power that could be tuned was 193rwkw. Jump onto a Mainline Dyno and it was 174rwkw. It was retuned on the Mainline Dyno and got more than 174rwkw. Then it went onto a DD Dyno and the power was above 193rwkw it was over 200rwkw.

Now if the Mainline Dyno has no inputs by the operator he can not adjust results. If the only thing he can do is increase the tension on the rollers that would be able to load up the engine more and possibly get more out of it when its under load????? Rather than if it was set to less tension the engine doesn't work so hard.


Does that make any sense?

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:36 am 
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Dyno dynamics usually is fairly conservative I thought (depends on operator). My 175RWKW doesn't mean crap until I translate it to a 14.0. I've got the tyres know and a little extra horsepower. All things being equal it should do it easily running 157kmh down the strip.
The reason I was getting 14.6's before was due to my 2.3-2.4 60ft's. Good tyres should see 2.0 60ft and that ellusive 14.0 400m.
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:46 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I guess the ¼ mile is the best dyno of all. It combines car and driver into one weapon.

Means bugger all if the car is capable of a 13 second flat run if all the owner can do is 13.5 or worse then its a 13.5 second car not a 13 flat.

Run what you brung including yourself.

Black top doesn't lie. Dynos do.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:29 pm 
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Timmeh wrote:
After a tune on a DD dyno the max power that could be tuned was 193rwkw. Jump onto a Mainline Dyno and it was 174rwkw. It was retuned on the Mainline Dyno and got more than 174rwkw. Then it went onto a DD Dyno and the power was above 193rwkw it was over 200rwkw.


As I expalined above. Ignore the numbers, pay attention to the difference of the before and after tune runs. THAT and THAT alone tells you how good the tune was.

The fact that the guy with the mainline managed to get a better tune, simply means one (or more of the following)
1. He's a better tuner
2. He 'fudged' the before/after runs
3. It's a less conservative tune (may be close to pinging, may be less friendly with lower quality fuel etc..)

The fact the DD dyno shows an improvement as well (was the difference the same number? or close enough?) implies options 1 and/or 3. The DD tuner may have given you a safer tune because he doesn't want you coming back with a blown engine. Or the ML tuner may know a little secret to increase the peak, or a better way to deliver torque, which will increase the overall.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah I get what your saying. Although has anyone read the info from both links I posted?

The ¼ mile is the dyno that can't and won't lie.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:33 pm 
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What info? You've just linked to two homepages for dyno makers.

 

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1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah and on those links it has information about the dynos.
This passage is what got me started on this

Quote:
The Mainline/DynoLog dyno is committed to dyno accuracy, and follows the approach that the chassis dyno should determine a vehicle's power rather than the dyno operator. Accordingly, the control system does not allow the operator to modify or otherwise "fudge" results. Mainline/DynoLog dynos are recognised as the true & trusted standard for accuracy, consistency and repeatability throughout the industry.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:26 pm 
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and to that I reply.

- What's to stop the operator strapping the car down, too hard, not hard enough, not at all. That all affects the result, the dyno can't do anything to control that.
- What's to stop the operator for the 'before' run not going WOT? You'd never know. Then the after is going to look much better - with potentially no work/tune done. Again the dyno can't control this.


In short, find an operator you trust, and trust that they're doing right by you. Then ignore the numbers, look at the differences.

 

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1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

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