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Launching T5 down the strip tips 

 

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 Post subject: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:11 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Does anyone have any tips they care to give? Now that ive got the t5 in and running well enough, I thought it would be fun to head to heathcote and see what its like.

Firstly some specs:
T5 with less than full meat clutch plate, but a good HD xr pressure plate.
engine has pacemakers with the 2.5 inch exhaust, as well as the usual piddly intake mods.
differential is a 3.89:1 ratio
tyres are cheapo hard compound crud 215/60/r16

I did a little test out on the freeway while it was quiet, where I pulled into the breakdown lane on a good stretch. I put it in second, and dialled in 3200 rpm, popped the clutch with the gass down, and all i got was tyre smoke and sideways... sideways... still sideways.. sideways through 3rd... and finally traction.

Obviously the traction is s**t on the side of a highway with all the debris floating about. Should I try 3rd with middle rpm? or would that potentially lunch the box? This is my first t5 and Id rather a leg up on the learning curve. First is out of the question unless I baby it off the line. first would be lucky to top 50kmh...

Another problem is the instant step left when the tyres give up. The diff is shimmed up so damn tight (i was forewarned by the seller, but I guess Im a bit deaf sometimes). Its rather pronounced, and quite dangerous. The guys at westpoint ford called it nothing short of lethal after they drove it in the wet. Is there any way of getting rid of the watts linkage without upsetting the applecart for the runs down the strip?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:48 pm 
Parts Gopher
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1: dont expect to let the clutch out in a hurry without smoke or stalling
2: dont use big revs when launching, same results as #1
3: get some decent rubber or you'll never get it to hook up well
4: take off like normal, but give it hell the moment you're moving, the less violent you make the initial movement, the less problems you'll have with wheelspin or stalling, once you've got a bit of momentum going, the car wont fight as much

exactly why do you think the watts linkage is making the back end step out to either side?

what you're suffering from is pretty much what everyone with a spool has noticed, which is that traction problems are magnified by both rear wheels being so tightly locked together

this problem is even noticeable in extreme conditions with a standard LSD when compared to an open centre differential

dont believe me? ask anyone who has driven a car with a spool what they're like in the wet

all the watts linkage does is to prevent lateral movement of the axle

best way to deal with this is to either get the LSD rebuilt so it isnt as tight, or get some decent rubber and be more carefull how you drive
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:10 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Clutch dump at 3200. Then full throttle. Well, I wonder why it was all smoke?? Your doing a burnout FFS, not trying to launch.
Rev it to 2k, let the clutch out til it just grabs, while your using the handbrake to hold the car.
Clutch out/handbrake off simultaneously, feed on the gas, you should be able to have it floored by about 4k, if not go throw your tires in a heap.

Any LSD will be tricky in the wet if it still an LSD - I'm sure mines not that tight and its fairly lethal if your not concentrating, though its not like its unpredictable.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:35 am 
Getting Side Ways
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MoffatGhia wrote:
exactly why do you think the watts linkage is making the back end step out to either side?


its not to either side, the watts linkage, so Im told, is designed to pull the a*** end to the left when traction is lost. It is designed this way as bathurst is majority left hand corners. Thus loss of traction on a left hand bend is managable, due to the linkages pulling the back of the car into correction somewhat.

krisisdog wrote:
Clutch dump at 3200. Then full throttle. Well, I wonder why it was all smoke?? Your doing a burnout FFS, not trying to launch.


see Im used to stalling up an auto. which is why I need tips for launching the t5 :) I thought starting in second would have the clutch slip a bit, get the initial momentum going then grab. Which wasnt the case.

So when Im staging at the tree I should hold with the handbrake. thats the sort of tip Im after. Do you think it will turn 3rd with the 3.89's at 2000rpm launch speed? The available grip on the cold shoulder of a highway is a long way off what you get at the strip. What gear do the guys running xr ratio and t5's start off in? going wot in 1st even once moving is loss of traction.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:39 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Mate you must have rubbish, rubbish tyres.
Launch in 1st, low rpm, feed the power on.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:47 am 
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First and foremost, you'll need some tyres that will hook up. If they're a hard compound then you won't be having too much luck.
You can try dropping the pressure in your tyres to around 28psi.
If you want to launch hard you will need to use 1st. That's what it's there for.
You'll need to punish the clutch. Don't just drop it or you'll light it up. Try launching at a few different rpm points. Start off at 3500, then 3750, then 4000. Each time at the line, have your clutch out as far as you can without it engaging. Don't worry about the handbrake, the start line is flat. When the light goes green, don't worry about it to begin with, just concentrate on letting the clutch out slowly, trying to keep the revs up, balancing that fine line between traction and no traction. I know when I started taking my car down, in all the excitement, I'd see the green light and just dump the clutch. It'd end up bogging down or lighting up.

Just practice and perservere. Just have no sympathy for your clutch! :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Power: 253 rwkw

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krisisdog wrote:
Mate you must have rubbish, rubbish tyres.
Launch in 1st, low rpm, feed the power on.



"tyres are cheapo hard compound crud 215/60/r16"

afirmative. Nankangs are rubbish, rubbish tyres.

Scaffy wrote:
First and foremost, you'll need some tyres that will hook up. If they're a hard compound then you won't be having too much luck.
You can try dropping the pressure in your tyres to around 28psi.

Just practice and perservere. Just have no sympathy for your clutch! :)


Thanks scaffy, 28psi still sounds highish (runs at 34psi cold), do you think lower can do any damage to the sidewall?

I wont have any sympathy for this clutch, its not new, and will most likely be replaced by a new unit before christmas. Perfect time for some abuse :P

 

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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:05 pm 
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lol Nankangs are alright surpisingly !!!

i was running 225/60/16 nankangs and they gave alright grip in the dry, better than a few other cheapies ive used.

i found when i went to the strip with manual, and running short diff ratio was HEAPS of axle tramp. And it was pointless dialliing up any sort of revs on take off because it would just spin and go nowhere. However the rear shocks were rooted at the time so i dont know how much that contributed to the axle tramp

i ran a 15.2 with slipping standard "clutch industries" clutch, and bad axle tramp which felt like the gearbox was jumping through the floor...... resulted in a poor 2.3sec 60 footer. They reckon every 1/10th you cut on the 60 footer, you gain 2/10th's at the end of the track.

So i find myself rambling here, dunno what advice to give, other than the track can really give you the s**t and make you hate your car for a few days afterwards lol. Pisses me off when you see others with just an exhaust & 3.45lsd run a mid 14 but you spend money on cams, short diff etc. making more power and it results in low 15 :x
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:36 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
MoffatGhia wrote:
exactly why do you think the watts linkage is making the back end step out to either side?


its not to either side, the watts linkage, so Im told, is designed to pull the a*** end to the left when traction is lost. It is designed this way as bathurst is majority left hand corners. Thus loss of traction on a left hand bend is managable, due to the linkages pulling the back of the car into correction somewhat.


so Ford designed the suspension in EVERY XE-AU sedan to make them better for racing at Bathurst, starting in an era when Ford Australia would avoid officially supporting a Falcon in any form of racing for over a decade?

Grimketel wrote:
So when Im staging at the tree I should hold with the handbrake. thats the sort of tip Im after. Do you think it will turn 3rd with the 3.89's at 2000rpm launch speed? The available grip on the cold shoulder of a highway is a long way off what you get at the strip. What gear do the guys running xr ratio and t5's start off in? going wot in 1st even once moving is loss of traction.


go back and read points 3 and 4 in my first post

getting rolling and snapping the throttle open wont achieve much, as i said, being violent achieves nothing, roll the throttle on steadily, it'll take practise to get it right, its a fine line between smoke and being slow

dont bother taking off in higher gears, you're effectively reducing the power you have available

as for the nankangs..... decent rubber? obviously you guys havent spent a few $$ on rubber yet
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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i said nanakang's are "alright"..... never said theyre comparable to "decent" rubber

feel free to spend 50% of your car's total value on each tyre change, on "decent" rubber
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:19 pm 
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i quite happily spend $1100 every 20,000km on 4 new 225/50R16's, im up for roughly $2k a set if i wanna run 17"s

$1100 every 11-12 months is preferable to replacing a car or losing a life in my eyes
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:35 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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MoffatGhia wrote:

$1100 every 11-12 months is preferable to replacing a car or losing a life in my eyes


oh ok.

well by rights you should also have a $2500 upgraded brake kit, and fully adjustable aftermarket suspension because the its preferable to having an avoidable accident

not having a go at you in particular, moreso people in general who get on their high horse about how they cloak the wheels in uber expensive rubber and feel the need to dismiss anything less. wgaf
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:50 pm 
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FordFairmont wrote:
well by rights you should also have a $2500 upgraded brake kit, and fully adjustable aftermarket suspension because the its preferable to having an avoidable accident


suspension and braking are further up the performance tree than tyres, decent rubber can make virtually any car seem like it handles well

FordFairmont wrote:
not having a go at you in particular, moreso people in general who get on their high horse about how they cloak the wheels in uber expensive rubber and feel the need to dismiss anything less. wgaf


better than those who spend a couple of grand on 22" wheels then complain about a lack of traction from thier $100 ling long tyres.....

my point is that if you have cheap s**t tyres, of course you're going to have problems with traction
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:55 pm 
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MoffatGhia wrote:

better than those who spend a couple of grand on 22" wheels then complain about a lack of traction from thier $100 ling long tyres.....

my point is that if you have cheap s**t tyres, of course you're going to have problems with traction


agreed !!!
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 Post subject: Re: Launching T5 down the strip tips
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:58 pm 
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Why would you be looking to take off in second or third. That makes NO SENSE at all......

You've just spent money on 3.89's to reduce the gearing over all and now you are looking to take off in a gear, which if you were looking for an equivilant, would be about normal 1st with a 2.75:1 (ish) final drive. Quite apart from the fact that if you do too much popping of the clutch in 2nd or third, you are either going to lunch the clutch (as it slips uncontrollably) or the gear box as you throw your gear sets in the bin.

Select 1st gear. Given your diff ratio, dial up low-ish revs (I would suggest about 23-2600rpm, otherwise too high and you are going to torch the back tyres quick smart) and then when the tree goes green, release the clutch, allowing it to slip as much as you need to to prevent wheel spin, but not so much that you are limiting the amount of drive getting to the ground. Whether or not you need the handbrake depends on whether your vehicle is shifting while you stage. If not, don't bother with it as it's just one more thing you need to think about and judging by this, you need to think about a lot more before you think about the handbrake.

The perfect balance depends entirely on the amount of traction available to you on any given run. You'll need to practice to make perfect!!

Good luck.... for now I would say look forward to some pretty ordinary 60ft times!!! :lol:

 

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