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Blow through MAF "Anyone seen it done" 

 

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 Post subject: Blow through MAF "Anyone seen it done"
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:48 pm 
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On the interest of being a really "cheap bastard", has anyone seen a Ford V8 MAF setup as blow through with a blower or turbocharger?

I know it has been done, just interested if anyone has seen it done and their opinions on doing it. Include links to webpages if you know of some.

Real reason I want to know is, I might be getting a V8 NF, I want to see what performance I could get on the cheap from a stock engine, include MAF, I wouldnt be doing it to the NF's original engine as it has over 700K on it, it is going strong but adding boost would be silly.

I have three blocks to choose from that I already have and could quickly build:
1) 69 302W, fresh 30 thou oversize Speed Pro Hypereutectic pistons fitted but would need custom roller cam etc.
2) 96 5.0L block, fresh 30 thou oversize, was actually bored and honed to suit the other new pistons before 302W block.
3) Stock complete 96 5.0L in pieces with realatively low kms that could be assembled fast (Of course I would fit new rings etc).

This is in the interest of finding out what a stock 5.0L could produce, then just adding bits along the way, like adjustable fuel reg, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump until something limits out, I will contact the nearest TAFE college (again me being a cheap bastard) for the dyno as there is a few interested teachers in these sort of things, plus there is no local dyno working at this time and maybe the near future.

Turbos for this project "IF" it starts will be stock RX7 IV (available to me), intercooler will be used, but unsure what will be used.

There is many ifs and buts, but my main interest at this time is blow through MAF, otherwise the intake piping will be a mess using two turbos.

Pity there isnt a cheap and easy way to use two Ford V8 MAFs with a factory ECU.

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:01 pm 
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if your spending the money putting a super chager on it, just get an after market ECU.

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:03 pm 
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Yeah i think i've seen it done. No wait.... i mean, I did it!!!

OK, at this juncture i'll tell you it aint no standard MAF.... C&L 73mm.

Fitment is not really a problem - i'm sure a resourceful young man such as yourself could rig up some fittings from the MAF to the TB whilst acheiving tight seal....

Have a look at my MAF and the way the sleeves easily clamp onto it.... and then look at the flanged standard MAF and you'll see what I mean.

Image

I'm also wondering if the standard MAF will be pushed "out of range" - my setup uses the standard electronics but the MAF and sampling tube are designed for a forced induction motor w/ 19# injectors.

But yeah - if you want a single blow thru maf then that's basically how it's done.

Or else have a draw through with induction piping from the two turbos being drawn from the one air filter?

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:18 pm 
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That is what I wanted to see, I wasn't worried about getting it to fit, that was the easier to work out bit, more interested on other problems that might have shown up with blowing air through, my thoughts were it would have advantages of actually sampling the air at the correct temp, not before the blower or turbo.

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:21 pm 
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concorde wrote:
if your spending the money putting a super chager on it, just get an after market ECU.


Didn't you read my post "I AM A CHEAP BASTARD".

Nah it would defeat the purpose of finding out how far you can go with a stock engine etc.

If I actually do it, "plenty of things haven't happened these days with me", I will do a doco "How to be a cheap bastard and still turbo a 5.0L" with setup by step f**k ups and successes.

I might just change my mind and use other parts yet :wink:

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:31 pm 
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Damage wrote:
That is what I wanted to see, I wasn't worried about getting it to fit, that was the easier to work out bit, more interested on other problems that might have shown up with blowing air through, my thoughts were it would have advantages of actually sampling the air at the correct temp, not before the blower or turbo.


Spot on.

Also makes life a little easier when situating the blowoff valve.... as you can see, mine just dumps into the engine bay (outdated pic - now run some plumbing to vent the air away from the engine bay).

If going for a draw through.... you'll be venting air which MAF and EEC have calculated fuel requirements for.... so would need to plumb back into air intake. Not a big deal, but personally i'd prefer fresh air heading into the compressor housing as opposed to air which has just been vented from the discharge plumbing....

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:08 pm 
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Doesn't matter where the MAF is, the temperature sensor which it uses to modify the MAF reading is in the lower intake manifold. If you run the MAF in a blow through setup, you will need to program the EEC for it, or get a MAF specifically calibrated for blow through. The MAF measures airflow not pressure so the boost created by the blower will throw the MAF out.

If you run the MAF in a draw through setup, then you don't need to reprogram the EEC as the air being sensed is not under boost. Still I can't see you running much boost without EEC mods to limit timing and increase fuel under boost anyway, but it could be done.

BTW the stock MAF will peg out at 230kw, not a big deal on a NA engine but fairly bad under boost.
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:38 pm 
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YES there are blow through mafs.They are generaly fitted to twin turbo set up..Pro-m has calibrated mafs just for this...

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/sea ... descending

Here's a nice turbo pic and maf blow through...
http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~mok00001/mus ... setup8.jpg

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:01 am 
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Thanks for the pictures Graeme.
Image

Did you check out this engine, at the site you got that picture from, in your previous post.
Image
Image

I am curious to what caused the failure.

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:05 am 
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EDXR8 wrote:
Doesn't matter where the MAF is, the temperature sensor which it uses to modify the MAF reading is in the lower intake manifold. If you run the MAF in a blow through setup, you will need to program the EEC for it, or get a MAF specifically calibrated for blow through. The MAF measures airflow not pressure so the boost created by the blower will throw the MAF out.

Acually - it does matter where the meter is situated. All flow meters have a distance for and aft before any bends or restrictions (especially a blow through design). The way that Martins is set up really hurts airflow into the sample tube. The meter is best run on the other side of the elbow - not the throttle body side. I have been doing some research on the ATI/ Unversal Pro-M mass air meters and this is what the Guru Jim Gonzales had to say - "I suggest 10-12inches of straight tube in front of the meter."
Jim is one of the men who designed the Pro-M system
Shane

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:10 am 
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Damage - what damage :shock: :shock: :shock:
Geez that wasn't a cheap bottom end either - those broken rodbolts are ARP 2000's so that would make the Eagle forged H beams....

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:10 am 
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MrLandau wrote:
Acually - it does matter where the meter is situated.


I meant in reference to Damage's comment on intake charge temperature.
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:16 am 
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MrLandau wrote:
Damage - what damage :shock: :shock: :shock:
Geez that wasn't a cheap bottom end either - those broken rodbolts in the last picture are ARP 2000's so that would make them Eagle forged H beams....

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:18 am 
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MrLandau wrote:
Damage - what damage :shock: :shock: :shock:
Geez that wasn't a cheap bottom end either - those broken rodbolts are ARP 2000's so that would make the Eagle forged H beams....


Well go to this site and see if you can find info on it, this sort of engine failure doesnt happen every day, and it would be awesome to find out what it took to do it.
http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~mok00001/mustangpics/

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:24 am 
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Might also be worth bringing up the 'dialling' of the MAF sensor. From what ive been reading on the mustang forums, the angle which the MAF sits in regards to the intake plumbing affects the manner in which it meters air.

i.e. this is described as 1 oclock, 2 oclock, etc. If you look at the angle mine sits at, it's roughly 11 oclock. If the hotwire was mounted at the very top of the intake, it would be 12 oclock, at the very bottom would be 6 o clock. As I understand it, at any given cross section of intake plumbing, the air is not flowing evenly across all areas of the cross section. Therefore the position of the MAF sample affects the amount of air being measured.

Shane, perhaps this is the theory behind Mr Gonzales' comments?

*4.9 EF heads off to re-engineer intake plumbing*

 

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