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 Post subject: Fuel pumps in series?
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:13 pm 
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Gday,

At the risk of sounding like an idiot...here I go.

I am building a blow thru carb set up. Was thinking of running a 7PSI base fuel pressure with 8-10 pound of boost. I dont have an accurate figure for hp but I was thinking of calculating everything for 600hp to be on the safe side. From what I have read 600hp equates to roughly 360lb/hr or 60gph of fuel.

The motor is a 383 clevo running a barry grant 750 blow thru carb, edelbrock performer intake, full MSD ignition 6AL, heavily ported 2V heads with 4V valves installed, fairly large cam with a fully upgraded powerdyne blower (billet impeller, 60 000rpm bearings, belt, shaft instead of the standard 36000rpm).

And now to the question. I bought a holley blue fuel pump, and a Malpassi 1:1 ratio boost refferenced regulator thinking it would do the job but now I think about it I'll need about 20psi.

base + boost + a couple of pounds extra to play with

The holley blue does a max of 14 PSI and flows 70gph at 9PSI.
The holley black does a max of 14 PSI and flows 120gph at 9PSI.

If I had a Black at the tank and a Blue in the engine bay would I get anything more than 14PSI and would it flow the 60gph I'll need at WOT?

If not, does anyone have any suggestions of a configuration that would work or a pump to do the job that doesnt cost an arm and a leg like the Aeromotive a1000 or the Magnaflow 500?

I was also looking at the Hollet dominator 350 but I havent got a price yet, anyone use this pump?

And finally, it looks like I will have to run a return line to the tank. How do you connect this to the tank and can I use a high pressure fuel hose instead of a metal line? Car is an XB.

Cheers,

Matt

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:19 pm 
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Run two carter 140gph pumps in parallel, with individual fuel lines, into one return reg, with one line off to the carb from there.
Putting fuel pumps in series will restrict to the lowest pump figure.
Use -8 for supply, and -6 for return.
Holley blue pumps are only good for transferring fuel from storage, to the car, or vice versa imho.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:27 pm 
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Thanks mate, that makes sence. I cant see any Carter 140Gph pumps in the rocket book. Time to do some more searching. :)

Any other ideas on pump configuration?

 

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76XBGS, 383c, custom crow cam, 4V p&p heads, Isky SS Valve+springs, extractors, 2.5"twins, MSD Ignition, Edelbrock intake, Forged bottom end, Barry Grant 750DP, thermo, discs, toploader, Holley fuel pump, SUPERCHARGED!

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:34 pm 
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I run one carter 140, and 1 carter 110. 140 on -8, 110 on -6 with a mallory reg on the 140, and a holley dead head on the 110. Fuel pressure is set at 7psi, and after the holley reg, I have a tee, where it enters the nitrous solenoid, with a 50 thou oriface back to the mallory return line to bleed any air out of the nitrous fuel line.

This sees my fuel needs for around the 500rwhp mark with the current set up, but will add another 140 with -8 for the new engine.
Be sure to set up all pumps off tachymetric relays for switching your pump relays for safety.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:39 pm 
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Ahh ok, so you are running a N/A engine? What is the max pressure of the carter 140gph pump?

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Mac Winter 76XB351GS wrote:
Ahh ok, so you are running a N/A engine? What is the max pressure of the carter 140gph pump?


Yes, only a 351 at present, N/A.
I think it is about 14 psi, will check for you. The carter pumps are nice and compact, reliable, and quite silent compared to the Holley equivalent.
New motor fuel requirements will be for 850+ hp with N2O and am confident with the carters for the time being. I will only be running 200 hit till all sorted, then will step up to 400, and then it becomes costly.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:53 pm 
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Oh, and on the tank, the standard one will have to be modified, but I would suggest getting a dedicated one made. Fuel lines can be alloy tube, as I have along the floor pan, and hose at the ends.
I went for speed flo fittings throughout, with push locks, but you can expect to pay in excess of $2000 for the system I set up. There was just over $1000 in fittings alone, then theres regs, pumps, gauges, wiring etc.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:59 pm 
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Sounds like a nice setup :P . Because I am running a blow thru setup I require about 20psi to the carb with the boost refferenced regulator...which is making it a bit hard to choose a pump as the ones that will do this are expensive and the ones I can afford will only put out 14-18psi.

I dont mind the idea of 2 pumps in paralell, if I can find a pump that does 18psi and is cheap enough I will do that.

Would like a big Aeromotive but at over $1000 I dont think its on the cards.

 

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76XBGS, 383c, custom crow cam, 4V p&p heads, Isky SS Valve+springs, extractors, 2.5"twins, MSD Ignition, Edelbrock intake, Forged bottom end, Barry Grant 750DP, thermo, discs, toploader, Holley fuel pump, SUPERCHARGED!

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:08 pm 
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Why do you need 18-20psi?
Volume is what you want.
If you can drain 2 x 140 gph pumps regulated @ 7 psi you have too much power......I cant see a holley needle holding that pressure.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:21 pm 
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I hope I can get away with something a little less than $2000. I just remembered I have steel lines already running to the boot from the LPG system that I removed. I'll have a look into getting a return installed in the standard tank as Id rather not have to replace the whole lot.

Just looking through the Rocket book some more. Theres an EFI external in-line pump that is rated to 80GPH at 15psi and 67GPH at 45psi. I cant see why I couldnt use that with a regulator. Sounds like its for a CPI or throttle body injection setup but I cant see why it wouldnt work if the regulator was set for 20psi and then into the variable regulator set with a base of 7psi and a 1:1 ratio from there up.

 

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76XBGS, 383c, custom crow cam, 4V p&p heads, Isky SS Valve+springs, extractors, 2.5"twins, MSD Ignition, Edelbrock intake, Forged bottom end, Barry Grant 750DP, thermo, discs, toploader, Holley fuel pump, SUPERCHARGED!

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:24 pm 
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I would remove everything, and run all new lines.
One thing you dont want is a high speed lean....it will look like you have had an oxy torch kiss every piston.
Every corner you cut with fuel supply is a potential for a sump full of debris.......
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:25 pm 
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Because there will be positive pressure in the fuel bowl from the blower I need to counteract this by raising the pressure going into the bowl to make it consistant in relation to the boost curve.

 

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76XBGS, 383c, custom crow cam, 4V p&p heads, Isky SS Valve+springs, extractors, 2.5"twins, MSD Ignition, Edelbrock intake, Forged bottom end, Barry Grant 750DP, thermo, discs, toploader, Holley fuel pump, SUPERCHARGED!

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Ok, sorry, I wasnt paying attention.
Possible run one carter then, a 140 say to a fuel cell in the bay, and from there, you can get the pump you mentioned earlier, and as it only has the distance from the inner guard to the carb to travel, it can respond to demand alot quicker.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:33 pm 
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Thats true, I want to keep the sump free of piston chunks. I'll look into new lines tomorrow aswell, I have done everything else properly, why start skimping now I spose.

 

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76XBGS, 383c, custom crow cam, 4V p&p heads, Isky SS Valve+springs, extractors, 2.5"twins, MSD Ignition, Edelbrock intake, Forged bottom end, Barry Grant 750DP, thermo, discs, toploader, Holley fuel pump, SUPERCHARGED!

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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:39 pm 
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I really like that idea. That solves the problem of installing a return line to the standard tank. Looks like I have a whole heap of searching to do tomorrow to find parts and prices. Thanks heaps :D

 

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76XBGS, 383c, custom crow cam, 4V p&p heads, Isky SS Valve+springs, extractors, 2.5"twins, MSD Ignition, Edelbrock intake, Forged bottom end, Barry Grant 750DP, thermo, discs, toploader, Holley fuel pump, SUPERCHARGED!

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