Fordmods Logo

How to get more torque/power without upping the boost? 

 

Page 1 of 3 [ 40 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

 
 Post subject: How to get more torque/power without upping the boost?
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

Now that I've almost finished installing the intercooler and upping the boost to 9psi, I'm wondering what to do next to get more oooomph.

I'm running the 2.7" pulley on the Powerdyne, so the blower is being pushed as far as it reliably can. 928 Motorsports in USA offer some rebuild upgrade parts to get an extra 20% boost at the same rpm, etc, but I'd rather not rebuild a blower which currently has just over 2,000kms on it.

I'm considering a manual conversion, but if so I'd rather go the whole hog to a T56. But I really do like driving my slush box.

So what about the engine - what can be done to this to increase torque and power? I keep being told that the stuff done to NA cars to increase it is no good for boosted application.
Currently the setup is a stocko EF bottom end with 94DT Tickford head, Crow double springs, and Wade 1636 camshaft (I'm guessing this camshaft is not entirely appropriate anymore as it would be more aimed at NA application, but I'm unsure of what to change it for).
I'm considering an AU VCT Tickford head conversion and an AU bottom end or CMS' 4.8L bottom end if that takes off.
Any other ideas/thoughts/recomendations?

O, and if there's a choice between top end power and bottom end torque, torque increase is preferable.

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:00 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 33

Posts: 2058

Joined: 25th May 2006

Ride: ef xr8

Power: 229 rwkw

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Headwork. Get the head pprted and a turbocam, maybe they might have a blower cam for a 6? ? if not a custom grind. a slight shave perhaps?

 

_________________

Because of Beer, Thirst is a Beautiful Thing!

'95 EF XR8 auto, Advance headers, 3" exhaust, Cobra manifold, BBK 75mm throttle body , 80MM Marauder MAF, Vortech V2 T Trim , 307 rwhp, 405 ft/lb 13.2 @ 105 MPH

Now N/A (permanent Lag) - AFR 165's, Comp XE270 cam, 1.6 RR - 269 rwhp 14.1 @ 102mph.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:14 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 49

Posts: 556

Joined: 10th Dec 2006

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EAII Falcon S

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

increasing the boost is like upping the fuel pressure when the fuel pump cant handle the flow, "it just makes things worse".

whats the ratio of your lsd? i know it sounds crazy but i think the power curves should be the main base for any final gearing choice cos the whole point to increasing power is to push the weight of the car through the gears.

a turbocam is a good idea because the wade 1636 is a perfect choice for a roots lobe or screw type blower as it will increase bottom to midrange power and torque as the boost comes on sooner but because the powerdyne is a belt driven centrifugal the 977b (also suited to auto) would probably be the best choice and is also better suited to the heavy springs, not only with mid range valve response but also for higher rpm.

if you do decide on a mid to high range cam it will push the torque up higher so you might find it gets too much boost up top so it might be safer to go with a slightly larger pulley just untill you get the tune worked out with the new cam (2.90 preferably) 8-)

manual conversion is good if you like manuals, but not if you just want better strip times as mid to high boost is best suited to an auto as it will idle low to pre mid range just before the power comes on strong (you will need a custom stall speed depending on your power curve), but it also depends on the gearing. "its just a sugestion" :P

 

_________________

Speed Safely! ;-)

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:50 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

Redford wrote:
whats the ratio of your lsd? i know it sounds crazy but i think the power curves should be the main base for any final gearing choice cos the whole point to increasing power is to push the weight of the car through the gears.


3.45 LSD from an XR6 EF wagon. I really wouldn't want to go any higher as it rev high enough on the highways already.

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:02 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

schnoods wrote:
and a turbocam, maybe they might have a blower cam for a 6? ? if not a custom grind. a slight shave perhaps?


I would of thought a turbocam would be fairly appropriate due to the blower being a Centrifugal.

Any other options aside from the Wade Cams 977B that anyone knows of? Do I need to look for one with little overlap between inlet and exhaust valve opening?

I don't know if this counts for much of a shave, but the head has been plained? twice already to make sure it's flat prior to fitting.

Do you think an AU VCT Tickford head would give any benifit? I was thinking along the lines of with the variable cam it could help low down torque.

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:08 am 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Manual.
Autos and centrifugal blowers were never meant for each other, unless it's only for quarter mile action.
Cam, something mild, and I'd probably advance it a few degrees to try and keep something down low, up top the blower will take over.
Wouldn't bother with headwork.
With powerdyne at it's limit the best you can really hope for is making slightly more power on less boost, you aren't going to pick up massive gains by doing little s**t.

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:09 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 49

Posts: 556

Joined: 10th Dec 2006

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EAII Falcon S

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

twr7cx wrote:
Redford wrote:
whats the ratio of your lsd? i know it sounds crazy but i think the power curves should be the main base for any final gearing choice cos the whole point to increasing power is to push the weight of the car through the gears.


3.45 LSD from an XR6 EF wagon. I really wouldn't want to go any higher as it rev high enough on the highways already.


i doubt you would need to go any higher than 3.45 with a suitable cam it will suit the higher torque range so i sugested the auto hi stall because of the rpm.

you get more power but higher engine rpm wich is suited to the centifugal setup.

 

_________________

Speed Safely! ;-)

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:17 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 49

Posts: 556

Joined: 10th Dec 2006

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EAII Falcon S

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

Steady ED wrote:
Manual.
Autos and centrifugal blowers were never meant for each other, unless it's only for quarter mile action.
Cam, something mild, and I'd probably advance it a few degrees to try and keep something down low, up top the blower will take over.
Wouldn't bother with headwork.
With powerdyne at it's limit the best you can really hope for is making slightly more power on less boost, you aren't going to pick up massive gains by doing little s**t.


yeah, an auto for the best launch, torque and excelleration on the quater mile

to keep power down low would need the AU VCT without looking at the powerdyne boost curve, just looking at all the different avenues for increased performance, like i said its just a sugestion.

 

_________________

Speed Safely! ;-)

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:05 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

Nearest drag strip is 200ish kms away, so the likely chance of my car seeing that is very low.
I want to enter the wagon into the local traffic light GP!

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Last edited by twr7cx on Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:08 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

Steady ED wrote:
Manual.
Autos and centrifugal blowers were never meant for each other, unless it's only for quarter mile action.
With powerdyne at it's limit the best you can really hope for is making slightly more power on less boost, you aren't going to pick up massive gains by doing little s**t.


I was always under the impression it was the opposite with the PD, I thought with manuals the belts (both internal in the blower and the engines serpintine belt) got screwed quickly.

I'm not necesarily after massive gains, just a little bit here and a little bit there.

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:12 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

Redford wrote:
you get more power but higher engine rpm wich is suited to the centifugal setup.


How does the higher stall converter effect the drivability of the car the rest of the time though?
Is there anyone else besides JMM offering them?

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:37 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 8655

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 37 images

Ride: V8 EF Futura

Location: Adelaide CBD
SA, Australia

twr7cx wrote:
I was always under the impression it was the opposite with the PD, I thought with manuals the belts (both internal in the blower and the engines serpintine belt) got screwed quickly.

I'm not necesarily after massive gains, just a little bit here and a little bit there.


Yerrrp, manual will be rougher on the internal belt as automatics just dont get the rapid change in engine speed that manuals can (i.e. shnapping off the throttle).

I'd say its a longevity issue as opposed to instant fail.

-Talk to someone about a cam that's more suitable.
-Have the car tuned to create more torque, obviously keeping in mind the need for an appropriate A:F ratio under boost
-Manual

And WTF.. 200km should only be a 2hr drive, less in that thing lol.

 

_________________

I promise..... I will never die.

Fordmods Administration Group MINOR PUNKED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:21 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 885

Joined: 14th Mar 2007

Location: Castlemaine
VIC, Australia

ive got both the lumpy wade cam which was matched to the Powerdyne supercharger and the JMM 3000 histall. They drive well, sounds like a monstor at the lights and very easily driven around car parks etc.

Launches are great, not sure of the time you save but its noticeable that the launch was quicker and your further ahead, i would suggest you'd save 0.6-0.8 of a second as i read that somewhere, cant find the page now, if you are looking to buy either, i have both which are coming off in a few weeks.
Matt

 

_________________

it can be fast and cheap,but it wont be reliable
it can be reliable and cheap,but it wont be fast
or you can be fast and reliable,but it wont be cheap

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:24 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

4.9 EF Futura wrote:
And WTF.. 200km should only be a 2hr drive, less in that thing lol.


Yeah, but it's weekends which is when I work (so as to be able to pay for petrol and future go fast bits). Remember I live in Hobart (small town) so anywere more than 15kmins away is far away. 200kms and I'm in the other side of the state, and those northerners are weird... :shock:

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:28 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

-GAS-MAN- wrote:
ive got both the lumpy wade cam which was matched to the Powerdyne supercharger and the JMM 3000 histall. They drive well, sounds like a monstor at the lights and very easily driven around car parks etc.


As we discussed previously I'm definately keen on the Cam, just wanting to find out what particular cam it is still...
I'm also keen on that stall converter now too. You've owned other 6 cylinder automatic falcons previously? - how is normal divability in the high stall compared to them?

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 3  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:09 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names