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picking the right rising rate reg 

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:33 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
If you use a 1:1 reg, you will only be increasing the rail pressure by 1psi for every 1psi of boost that you run! Where as if you use what I will be, the rail pressure will be going up 6psi for every 1psi of boost that I run.


You are correct, but you really shouldn't be relying on increased fuel pressure to deliver more fuel. The proper and more reliable method is to firstly have injectors large enough to supply more than enough fuel (really want some decent headroom too), and then a custom tune which will give the desired AFR's. Rising rate regs are a bandaid measure, they are cheap and do work but aren't the most reliable devices IMO.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:45 pm 
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EDXR8 wrote:
wadesta_1986 wrote:
If you use a 1:1 reg, you will only be increasing the rail pressure by 1psi for every 1psi of boost that you run! Where as if you use what I will be, the rail pressure will be going up 6psi for every 1psi of boost that I run.


You are correct, but you really shouldn't be relying on increased fuel pressure to deliver more fuel. The proper and more reliable method is to firstly have injectors large enough to supply more than enough fuel (really want some decent headroom too), and then a custom tune which will give the desired AFR's. Rising rate regs are a bandaid measure, they are cheap and do work but aren't the most reliable devices IMO.


Sorry, Feelin a bit lazy tonight! I myself have asked all of these questions! But I was assuming that the injectors and ECU werent apart of it. Obviously if you are getting bigger injectors, you need a decent fuel supply alone for them. When it comes to my boost project, I will be running 480cc Ford Motorsport Injectors (Direct Replacement), the Haltech Interceptor ECU, A 1" Fuel Rail (Billet Annodised in Red), the rising rate reg, and a Walbro 255 L/HR Fuel pump. Thats just the fuel and Electronics System! I could go into great details about the other components that will be placed under the bonnet as well but that would be way off topic! :P
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:51 pm 
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Thats an excellent setup there but IMO the rising rate reg is not needed at all, the only reason for a rising rate reg is to either push the injectors past their limits or to compensate for no tuning. You have both of those covered so I would personally stick with the reliable stock fuel reg.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:53 pm 
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Meh, The reg comes with the Kit so I will throw it in. Plus, this project is huge! I wont go into mass detail but I am planning on running 10sec quaters! :D
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:25 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
If you are going to run any sort of forced induction, you NEED to be sure that you are getting plenty of fuel supply! If you use a 1:1 reg, you will only be increasing the rail pressure by 1psi for every 1psi of boost that you run! Where as if you use what I will be, the rail pressure will be going up 6psi for every 1psi of boost that I run.




thats my whole point you need to be sure you have enough feul supply.
so get the right size injectors. and a 1:1 reg, the reg is only there to keep the rail pressure constant above manifold pressure. (300kpa give or take a bit)

if setup right you will NEVER need anything more then a 1:1 reg


BTW you do realise at 12psi you will have 72PSI above the base pressure.

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:30 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
wadesta_1986 wrote:
If you are going to run any sort of forced induction, you NEED to be sure that you are getting plenty of fuel supply! If you use a 1:1 reg, you will only be increasing the rail pressure by 1psi for every 1psi of boost that you run! Where as if you use what I will be, the rail pressure will be going up 6psi for every 1psi of boost that I run.




thats my whole point you need to be sure you have enough feul supply.
so get the right size injectors. and a 1:1 reg, the reg is only there to keep the rail pressure constant above manifold pressure. (300kpa give or take a bit)

if setup right you will NEVER need anything more then a 1:1 reg


BTW you do realise at 12psi you will have 72PSI above the base pressure.


Yup! Read My Posts! Its A Huge Project! It needs the pressure to run the amount of boost that I wanna run! BTW: A 6:1 reg is small compared to some I have seen. Some ppl here are running 12:1
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:43 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
Yup! Read My Posts! Its A Huge Project! It needs the pressure to run the amount of boost that I wanna run! BTW: A 6:1 reg is small compared to some I have seen. Some ppl here are running 12:1


Correct but the 12:1's are only designed for small boost setups with stock injectors, and also those type of rates are generally used in FMU's which work a little different than general rising rate regs. Generally the fuel lines, injectors and particularly the fuel pumps are only good until around 90psi, and as said if you are planing on running even 12psi you will be seeing over 100psi of fuel pressure which will kill the injectors and fuel pump in no time.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:02 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
wadesta_1986 wrote:
If you are going to run any sort of forced induction, you NEED to be sure that you are getting plenty of fuel supply! If you use a 1:1 reg, you will only be increasing the rail pressure by 1psi for every 1psi of boost that you run! Where as if you use what I will be, the rail pressure will be going up 6psi for every 1psi of boost that I run.




thats my whole point you need to be sure you have enough feul supply.
so get the right size injectors. and a 1:1 reg, the reg is only there to keep the rail pressure constant above manifold pressure. (300kpa give or take a bit)

if setup right you will NEVER need anything more then a 1:1 reg


BTW you do realise at 12psi you will have 72PSI above the base pressure.


Yup! Read My Posts! Its A Huge Project! It needs the pressure to run the amount of boost that I wanna run! BTW: A 6:1 reg is small compared to some I have seen. Some ppl here are running 12:1


it doesn't mater how big it is. get the right size injector. run a sane feul pressure and you still have more then enough feul delivery capability.

like i already said those sort of rising rate regs are for people not smart enough to buy the right sized injector.

it's not like you are limmited buy not being able to tune for the large injectors. you are using an aftermarket ECU, but hey if you want to run your pump and injectors past a safe pressure go for it

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:13 pm 
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Well theory and crap aside, whatever you do get it on a dyno and make sure its 100% safe...
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:23 pm 
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CHEF wrote:
Well theory and crap aside, whatever you do get it on a dyno and make sure its 100% safe...


Your allways pushing for dynos!

The inital question was answered then. Depends on application and injector sizing. Now I have a question. How come everyone I spoke to about the setup that I am going to run told me that I would be an idiot to run a 1:1 regulator?
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:33 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
How come everyone I spoke to about the setup that I am going to run told me that I would be an idiot to run a 1:1 regulator?


Well if they knew you were running an aftermarket engine management system and decent injectors and they still told you to run a rising rate reg then they don't really know what they are talking about IMO.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:35 pm 
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EDXR8 wrote:
wadesta_1986 wrote:
How come everyone I spoke to about the setup that I am going to run told me that I would be an idiot to run a 1:1 regulator?


Well if they knew you were running an aftermarket engine management system and decent injectors and they still told you to run a rising rate reg then they don't really know what they are talking about IMO.


Honestly, Wouldnt suprise me. They must have seen a chick with big tits or somthin and stop listenin to me. With the 480cc's, would the stock reg be A-Ok or should I go and dust off the 1:1 I have somewhere?
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:39 pm 
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wadesta_1986 wrote:
CHEF wrote:
Well theory and crap aside, whatever you do get it on a dyno and make sure its 100% safe...


Your allways pushing for dynos!

The inital question was answered then. Depends on application and injector sizing. Now I have a question. How come everyone I spoke to about the setup that I am going to run told me that I would be an idiot to run a 1:1 regulator?



first off who is every one. and what reason did they give you??


all you need to do is keep the rail pressure above the manifold pressure.
there is no need what so ever to increase it at a rate more then 1:1

think about it this way. 43psi=300kpa
you have say 43psi rail pressure, and 20psi of manifold pressure.
that is the same as 23psi rail pressure with atmospheric manifold pressure.
with a 1:1 reg that 20 psi boost would see the rail pressure at 63psi

a 6:1 reg would see the rail pressure at 163psi !!!!!!!!!!!!!:shock:

if you never run a rising rate reg you could in theory get to a point where fuel would not flow out of the injector, feul pressure and manifold pressure equal mean no flow :shock:

the only reason you should ever need a rising rate reg is to keep fuel pressure at a constant above manifold pressure. 1:1

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:43 pm 
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Mainly the places I called enquiring as to what I can expect out of the 480's, under high boost, with a 1:1. They said I would run into injector duty cycle problems. I said wouldnt that be the case with stockies and they said that would be the case with most injectors :S
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:45 pm 
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Stock reg has a 1:1 rising rate anyway. And 6x480cc injectors flow enough for 576hp (430kw), so unless you are running more than that, the stock reg with those injectors will be fine. And if you do plan to go for more power, then invest in some larger 600cc+ injectors and do it properly first time, it will save you a lot of problems down the track.
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