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Positive Displacement Charger question 

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:19 am 
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xfpaul wrote:
turbos work really well on high fast rev motors with close ratio boxes to keep em on the power curve, dont think that includes any falcon i6 ever made

LOL!!! What planet are you from?? Ever driven a turbo Falcon?? From that comment i guess not...

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:04 pm 
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xfpaul wrote:
has anyone built ,driven and owned 650+kw engine, i have, i want hear from them
and we'd believe this because, you say so......I find it hard for someone to have built a 650kw motor, to have no idea how a turbo would work and on what motor...
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 Post subject: Re: Positive Displacement Charger question
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:59 pm 
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danbode wrote:
Hi there is there any kind of positive displacement supercharger out there that i can run 15PSI + with on an ED XR6? would it be better to get a positive displacment type or the other kind like the rapter V running that kind of boost?

cheers

Daniel

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:00 pm 
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danbode wrote:
yer i know but im dead keen on charging it.

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:01 pm 
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danbode wrote:
yer sorry guys
but im dead keen on the blower, and i will pay for it, but i am a fitter and turner so i can do alot of the work.

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:51 pm 
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Slick wrote:
xcabbi wrote:
Slick wrote:
They only made that gear drive for the Rotrex centrifugal charger so far. don't know yet if the plans are up & running for a universal unit. the idea of the drive is to run the blower really fast at low engine speed. the gearing suppose to automatically shift up seamlessly so it'll operate efficiently at high engine revs. basically an automatic drive.
Thats right xcabbi, depending on how you like your setup. it has to be geared to match the engine type from what I gather.

example: to run a centri like the procharger mentioned previously with a speed limit of 55000rpm. the step-up gear in the centri would run in the vicinity of a ratio of 11:1, for a engine that max out at 5000rpm. thats where the antonov comes in, the drive gear will step-down the ratio to reduce the external blower overdrive pulley speed at max engine revs, but the blower itself is spinning cross to its max speed. don't take my word for it, but its an example.


This is where a CVT would absolutely kick a***. Constant boost all the way from idle right through to redline with no drop offs/steps what so ever.

Could do but with something alot simpler in design & cost effective, like the Nuvinci bicycle CTV. but you'll need a external control, I guess thats where a vacuum actuator comes in. :wink:
the antonov design operates by centrifugal force. in other words, a more advance centrifugal clutch drive.


Thinking about the antonov 2 speed box there is a way in which it could work. Looking at compressor maps there are islands of equal efficiency. Therefore there are multiple states (mass air flow and pressure satios) where the efficiency is the same. So by spinning the turbo past its max efficiency back on to a certain efficiency (say e.g. 65%) then gearing it back down so that 65% efficiency is reached at a lower maf and/or pressure ratio the blower will still be picking up efficiency throughout the rest of the rev range. The only problem here is, does the rest of the engine have an adiabatic efficiency matched to the blower throughout the whole rev range.

Having said that I think antonov's are aimed purely at true street stump pullers. The street/strip guys want their torque peaks as high in the rev range as possible.

How many people don't get this so I try can word it in a different manner.
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:16 pm 
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Slick wrote:
Nah man, S/C is the best. terdbos will never break a top-fuel quarter mile record! LOL


I thought this debate about turbo V's S/C was over. why are you guys being so persistent about it.


xfpaul wrote:
turbos work really well on high fast rev motors with close ratio boxes to keep em on the power curve, dont think that includes any falcon i6 ever made


i totally agree, in racing applications turbos do work much better on high rpm, narrow powerband, short strokes such as the RB engines. there are plenty of 7 and 8 second skylines around, so why not the ford i6?

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:05 pm 
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EL XR8 wrote:
xfpaul wrote:
has anyone built ,driven and owned 650+kw engine, i have, i want hear from them
and we'd believe this because, you say so......I find it hard for someone to have built a 650kw motor, to have no idea how a turbo would work and on what motor...


the fact the im a qualified mechanic, owned a blown,nitrous 1966 chev street car and was runner up in the tasmanian drag championships to a pro stock , drove a new fpv turb two weeks ago and its f*****ing slow, not my words that was the ford salesman(mate) that drove my car the same day
ill help anyone who wants to learn, ya cant beat practical exp.

last post from this idiot

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Redford wrote:
Slick wrote:
Nah man, S/C is the best. terdbos will never break a top-fuel quarter mile record! LOL


I thought this debate about turbo V's S/C was over. why are you guys being so persistent about it.


xfpaul wrote:
turbos work really well on high fast rev motors with close ratio boxes to keep em on the power curve, dont think that includes any falcon i6 ever made


i totally agree, in racing applications turbos do work much better on high rpm, narrow powerband, short strokes such as the RB engines. there are plenty of 7 and 8 second skylines around, so why not the ford i6?



The block and the long stroke is what is holding it back.

I dunno about plenty of 7 sec skylines though, as far as I know there are about 7 worldwide. (few years ago...)

Mind you Nizpro's 1000 hp BA XR6T motor with a Lenco and a purpose rear end would have enough to do it, thought it aint exactly a car then...


Im surprised this thread has gone from positive displacement blowers to topfuelers and 7 sec skylines lol.


Thing is, the ford i6 compared to the skyline i6 is just worlds apart. They might have the same configuration, but what we have over here and what skylines have done worldwide racing wise as well as development is something you cant compare.

You could build a "nissan" motor from about 8 different parts catalogues without even having a stock nissan part.....

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:13 pm 
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xfpaul wrote:
EL XR8 wrote:
xfpaul wrote:
has anyone built ,driven and owned 650+kw engine, i have, i want hear from them
and we'd believe this because, you say so......I find it hard for someone to have built a 650kw motor, to have no idea how a turbo would work and on what motor...


the fact the im a qualified mechanic, owned a blown,nitrous 1966 chev street car and was runner up in the tasmanian drag championships to a pro stock , drove a new fpv turb two weeks ago and its f*****ing slow, not my words that was the ford salesman(mate) that drove my car the same day
ill help anyone who wants to learn, ya cant beat practical exp.

last post from this idiot


Just out of curiosity what time did it run and what sort of chev is it??

 

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Now N/A (permanent Lag) - AFR 165's, Comp XE270 cam, 1.6 RR - 269 rwhp 14.1 @ 102mph.

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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:38 am 
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xcabbi wrote:
Slick wrote:
xcabbi wrote:
Slick wrote:
They only made that gear drive for the Rotrex centrifugal charger so far. don't know yet if the plans are up & running for a universal unit. the idea of the drive is to run the blower really fast at low engine speed. the gearing suppose to automatically shift up seamlessly so it'll operate efficiently at high engine revs. basically an automatic drive.
Thats right xcabbi, depending on how you like your setup. it has to be geared to match the engine type from what I gather.

example: to run a centri like the procharger mentioned previously with a speed limit of 55000rpm. the step-up gear in the centri would run in the vicinity of a ratio of 11:1, for a engine that max out at 5000rpm. thats where the antonov comes in, the drive gear will step-down the ratio to reduce the external blower overdrive pulley speed at max engine revs, but the blower itself is spinning cross to its max speed. don't take my word for it, but its an example.


This is where a CVT would absolutely kick a***. Constant boost all the way from idle right through to redline with no drop offs/steps what so ever.

Could do but with something alot simpler in design & cost effective, like the Nuvinci bicycle CTV. but you'll need a external control, I guess thats where a vacuum actuator comes in. :wink:
the antonov design operates by centrifugal force. in other words, a more advance centrifugal clutch drive.


Thinking about the antonov 2 speed box there is a way in which it could work. Looking at compressor maps there are islands of equal efficiency. Therefore there are multiple states (mass air flow and pressure satios) where the efficiency is the same. So by spinning the turbo past its max efficiency back on to a certain efficiency (say e.g. 65%) then gearing it back down so that 65% efficiency is reached at a lower maf and/or pressure ratio the blower will still be picking up efficiency throughout the rest of the rev range. The only problem here is, does the rest of the engine have an adiabatic efficiency matched to the blower throughout the whole rev range.

Having said that I think antonov's are aimed purely at true street stump pullers. The street/strip guys want their torque peaks as high in the rev range as possible.

How many people don't get this so I try can word it in a different manner.
I'm seeing double the post there xcabbi. it looks twice as long soo I'l gett back to you when I'm a bit sober. LOL

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:32 am 
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Guys, this wouldd be healthy debate if you young C*** don't get so fired up easily. the first reaction we're noticing in defencive mode is personal abusive attacks... feeble minded I call it.

pull your head out, think outside the box & challenge the post objectively.

xfpaul is a mechanic by trade, also an engineering wizard. if any of you girls want a P/D twin screw or roots nesting beside the i6, he's the man that can do it. or if you're stuck with a engine combo, he'll work it out on paper by formula.

anymore direct abuse will be reported!

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:31 pm 
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Slick wrote:
Guys, this wouldd be healthy debate if you young C*** don't get so fired up easily. the first reaction we're noticing in defencive mode is personal abusive attacks... feeble minded I call it.

I call it "FUN-EE".

It'd be a healthy debate if there wasn't so much misinformation being thrown around.
And thats it from me.

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:34 pm 
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So, do we get to report you, for calling us 'young C***'...Seriously, if i said something absolutely stupid that everyone knows isn't correct, i would expect to called an idiot.If some people on here keep talking crap about stuff they have no idea about, whatever their qualifications then they'll get put in their place.  It wouldn't just happen in this thread, in any part of FM.

Enjoy anyway boys. Have fun with a belt driven blower.
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:09 pm 
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Quote:
It'd be a healthy debate if there wasn't so much misinformation being thrown around.
And thats it from me.


agreed, i feel sorry for the people that are trying to learn of these forums.

 

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