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sc14 on au e-gas engine 

 

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 Post subject: sc14 on au e-gas engine
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:01 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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i'm just wondering if the standard e-gas converter and mixer would work with an sc14 blower. i'll be pumping 10 pounds through it.

Any other problems that may arise with LPG??


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Josh
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:18 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Probably more so the sc14 trying to churn out 10 psi on a 6 will be the where it hits the wall..

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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these are quite small superchargers, originally off a 2.0lt feeding 4.0lt might be a problem

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:53 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Might be pumping 10psi out of the cs14, but did you find out how much cubic feet of air per minute it can suck?
CFM is whats its all about. without knowing the max air delivery of those S/C, its a waste of time.
but then again, we've acceptable to believe everything on a forum when people start saying its a waste of time.
Dude, one way to find out if its a waste of time is to find out for yourself. just remember to report back of your finding.

"If theres a way, theres a way around it" thats how I work around things. :wink:

LPG has a high octane rating then petrol so you don't have to worry about pinging & s**t! :wink:

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:02 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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There was a kit on Ebay not too long ago using the sc14 - claimed ~6psi Max made about 160rwkw. with upgraded fuel system.

Will it work - most likely
Will the results be enough to cover time/cost - probably not.

but there is only one way to find out as said above.
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:25 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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what i meant in the question was that because the standard e-gas cannot be adjusted fuel wise i was wondering if it may lean out with the charger on but i do believe they are run fairly rich from the factory
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:33 am 
Oompa Loompa
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and they flow about the same amount of air that an m90 does 1490cfm or something
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:42 pm 
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Fischer wrote:
and they flow about the same amount of air that an m90 does 1490cfm or something
Where did you get info from mate?
are you sure it isn't 1420cc per revolution you mistaken the cfm for?

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:13 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Fischer wrote:
and they flow about the same amount of air that an m90 does 1490cfm or something

The SC14 pumps 1400cc of air per revolution, the M90 pumps 90 cubic inches, approx 1475cc. The M90 is good to 14,000rpm, the SC14, I'm told, is rated 10,000rpm continuous and 13,000rpm intermittent. I'd gear an SC14 at 2:1 so it turns 10000rpm at 5000 engine rpm. For each engine revolution requiring a nominal 2 litres of air/fuel mixture, the SC14 would pump 2.8 litres. Convert this to CFM using your own idea of peak rpm.

Another way to look at it is that geared at 2:1, the SC14 provides 1.4 times the intake requirement of a 4 litre engine at 100% volumetric efficiency, or 1.4 atmospheres... 1.4 bar of absolute pressure in other words, or 0.4 bar of gauge pressure. In PSI this is 0.4 * 14.7 or 5.88psi of boost. To get 10psi you'd need to spin it 3.4 times crank speed, 17,000rpm at a 5000rpm redline, 18,700 @ 5500rpm. Thankfully they're cheap.

 

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:01 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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i can't see why an ecotec commodore can have one running 10 PSI and a falcon can't i always thought the commodores needed alot more air
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:39 pm 
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Fischer wrote:
i can't see why an ecotec commodore can have one running 10 PSI and a falcon can't i always thought the commodores needed alot more air


Because boost can be considered a restriction in a round about kind of way. A 3.8 litre moro running at 100% volumetric efficiency will swallow 3.8 litres worth of air every 2 turns of the crank. And a 4 litre motor will swallow 4 littres worth of air every 2 turns of the crank. Any air that isn't swallowed is compressed in the inlet tract, this comes up as boost. This post may appear to sound like jibberish but I'm a little tipsy at the moment so I'll finish it off next time I'm online.
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:59 pm 
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What you could do is install a air bypass valve. rig it so it'll bypass the sc14 feed back to the sc but also have a secondary abv that opens up a butterfly & switch the engine over to its N/A form. that doesn't mean the sc is off line at all. it'll still feed air into the engine but at a lower boost.

I'll draw a diagram so you'll know what I mean. like I said before mate- if theres a way theres a way around it! lol

some people will say its a waste of time but forums are for ideas. without ideas, you'll never progress!

 

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:21 pm 
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Fischer wrote:
i can't see why an ecotec commodore can have one running 10 PSI and a falcon can't i always thought the commodores needed alot more air

Sorry, I missed by THAT much LOL! Try spinning the SC14 at 2.4 times crank speed for 10 psi, or 13,200 rpm at a 5500rpm crank speed. This (and my 5.88psi calc) also ignored boost loss due to cam lobe overlap - roughly 5% per 10deg of overlap. Would be just doable if you set the rev limiter a bit lower than stock.

Running an SC14 at 2.28 times crank speed on the 3.8 woukd give 10psi (theoretical, before overlap loss) and a blower speed of 12,540rpm at 5500 crank rpm.

So it seems the SC14 is just inside its envelope on a 3.8, but right on the bleeding edge on a 4.0L. In any event the efficiency of the SC14 drops right off at higher rpm. I found an old Zoom article the other week comparing a Powerdyne on an RB30 against an SC14 on a 3.8. The 3.8 went well from idle to midrange then went soft from there up (probably over about 4000rpm or so).

An Eaton M90 would be better sized to give 10psi of boost on a 4.0, and ATM there's a bloke on ebay with 10 of them brand new going for $780 each. If only I had a manifold to suit (sigh).

 

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:38 pm 
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might be a little small for the 4.0 to get high psi you are going to have to spin it past it effective speed causeing increased outlet temps yes you can intercool but the blower will be causing more problems than its worth , on the subject of psi keep the presure down less heat , on the au with 9.6:1 compression ratio (i think lpg motor actaully higher) work out the effective comp ratio for a given psi , high psi + high static comp = high effective comp which as in normally asp engine reqires high octane fuel forget increaseing air fuel ratio that engine with 10 psi would give an effective of about 12-12.5:1 so unless you want to run methonol back your pressure down it will still haul...

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:25 am 
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Sorry to resurect an old thread, but I have the chance to buy a SC14 really cheap.. (actually probably several) and I was wondering, which the usual cam/exhaust/pod mods, running 6 to 8 psi on the sc... what sort of boost would that give? I have the equipment to build my own brackets and piping and stuff, and I'd probably put it all together outside the car as the EL motor is now. Just wondering what sort of boost I'd get with 8psi ???

Also, I just took a look at the EL motor, and it seems I'd have to move the air con compressor down a fair bit in order to get the SC close enough to the motor. Or is there a better solution?

Next is manifold.. I was planning on using an electronically switched butterfly valve on a bypass pipe activated by the same feed that triggers the huffers pully so I could turn it on and off as needed and save wear/fuel... so I'd like to keep the benefits of the BBM for NA driving... do you guys think that is possible?

I'm doing this as much for entertainment value as anything else, so spending hours fabricating stuff doesn't worry me.. but spending massive bucks worries my wife..so the SC14 is about as far as I could go at this stage.. (shame there isn't room for two)

any thoughts?


rgds

Frank
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