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water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon 

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:24 pm 
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Slick wrote:
gaz084 wrote:
I was told it will take the temps down to around 28 degrees....im not sure what they are now but there definantly not 28 degrees.


Have any idea what the air temperature at the blower outlet is?

with a small intercooler like that, I'll be looking at adding a water/methylated injection system for maximum benefit. :P


Getting the 'temp down to 28 degrees' is a funny statement...the temp drop from any intercooler would change day to day and in different conditions. A cooler might get 28 degree intake temps cruising on a 15 degree day, but intake temps will be likely higher using sustained boost on a 35 degree day. They're affected by the ambient air temp, boost levels, and heat soak....there are a few variables!

I'm not certain, but I seem to recall a raptor vid, or maybe a post by someone, showing intake temps reaching approx. 70degree celcius. This would certainly be similar to mine (powerdyne)....I used to see around 68 degrees on boost. These centrifugal chargers are not really hot compared to turbos, so that 'small' intercooler will be heaps for the cooling you require. And you'll get almost no pressure drop through the core or pipework. Let us know once its working!

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:33 am 
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my raptor v without any intercooling, on a 28 deg c ambient day, under normal driving it was showing a constant 48-50 deg c...
and on boost eg, 1st gear and 2nd gear burst up to 12psi each gear it would rise to about 70 deg c and within 15 seconds of back off, it would drop back to 50 deg.

on a 38 deg day it did a dyno run and hit the 90deg c mark in 4th gear but again the temp would drop back within 15 seconds.

this was all recorded on a ems datalog..
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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:53 am 
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I thought it might have been your temps I was referring to Troy! That's a good explanation of how you can't quote a static intake temp figure that an intercooler will give.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:13 pm 
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your best option is to get a before and after I/C air temp reading.

test it in a range of environments and quote an average drop.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:12 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Well thats good to know thanks guys,i knew the raptor ran alot cooler than a turbo...wich is great .... i more wanted to get the intercooler so i can run full timing on my 10:7:1 egas engine as timing had to be taken out as there was some detonation.....so the main reason was so the hi comp and 110 octane could do there thing without deto.

I was told around 28 degrees so its not a definante 28 degrees all day everyday im guessing...i dont know,but plazmaman will be doing some tests to find out what temp drop it gives,after its all installed and tuned.

I was also told that there will be some pressure drop threw the intercooler,because if there wasnt there wouldnt be enough time to cool the air as its passing threw the core,but the best thing will be that there wont be any pressure drop threw added piping because the lenght is staying the same.

Cant wait till its all up and running :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:02 pm 
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Gaz, I reckon its an ideal setup. The short intake path + being on the cool side of the engine bay will work great. The core itself will allow great flow, but be plenty to get temps down on a raptor charger.

I've just had mine set up (more pipework, but still shortish and free flowing, with the core where the battery used to be), and it works excellent. Car driveability and performance is transformed really....heat soak and the resulting det really took a lot away from the car previously. I was a little concerned about engine cooling with a radiator in front of a radiator, but for some reason (maybe some other issues addressed too!), the car runs cooler than it ever has.

I'm sure you'll be pleased with the outcome, and even better that plazmaman will be checking results. As said in previous post, measurement of temp drop across the core, in different conditions and then averaged will give the most accurate result. The good thing with w2a coolers is their consistency...the volume of water can absorb and and slowly dissipate some serious increases in heat before there are significant changes to the intake temp the engine is seeing. Tuners like them for this reason! They don't fluctuate so much on a dyno. You should be able to put a fair bit of timing back in.

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:32 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Thanks joe ... how was your low down tourqe after you put the w2a on ?,was there much of an increase.
I think your on to something with the w2a radiator i am noticing the ute is running cooler than before aswell,so i dont think its just a coincidence.

Yeah i hope its able to run full timing again.....only time will tell.Will be doing some fiddling with the intercooler core this weekend,i may also have to get some 90 degree elbows for the core as the current outlets are straight and harder to get a 19mm pipe to.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:29 am 
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JoeXR6 wrote:
Slick wrote:
gaz084 wrote:
I was told it will take the temps down to around 28 degrees....im not sure what they are now but there definantly not 28 degrees.


Have any idea what the air temperature at the blower outlet is?

with a small intercooler like that, I'll be looking at adding a water/methylated injection system for maximum benefit. :P


Getting the 'temp down to 28 degrees' is a funny statement...the temp drop from any intercooler would change day to day and in different conditions. A cooler might get 28 degree intake temps cruising on a 15 degree day, but intake temps will be likely higher using sustained boost on a 35 degree day. They're affected by the ambient air temp, boost levels, and heat soak....there are a few variables!

I'm not certain, but I seem to recall a raptor vid, or maybe a post by someone, showing intake temps reaching approx. 70degree celcius. This would certainly be similar to mine (powerdyne)....I used to see around 68 degrees on boost. These centrifugal chargers are not really hot compared to turbos, so that 'small' intercooler will be heaps for the cooling you require. And you'll get almost no pressure drop through the core or pipework. Let us know once its working!


Exactly what I wanted to say but the acute back pain I've been having prevented me from probing the 28 degree claim. lol

One thing I've notice is gaz084 wanted to run his boost up to 13psi with a compression ratio of 10.7:1 :shock:
Don't know about you guys but if I was going to spend money on it I'll make sure it won't go bang all of a sudden on a very hot day, more the reason I'll be looking at water injection to keep my investment intact for a very long time.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:01 pm 
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gaz084 wrote:
Thanks joe ... how was your low down tourqe after you put the w2a on ?,was there much of an increase.
I think your on to something with the w2a radiator i am noticing the ute is running cooler than before aswell,so i dont think its just a coincidence.

Yeah i hope its able to run full timing again.....only time will tell.Will be doing some fiddling with the intercooler core this weekend,i may also have to get some 90 degree elbows for the core as the current outlets are straight and harder to get a 19mm pipe to.


Gaz, I haven't compared low rpm torque between my latest dyno sheet and the previous, but it feels heaps better. The car is happy and smooth a gear higher than normal, giving nice driving and better economy. I pull a fair bit of weight on a trailer (around 1.5 tonne) and it is doing this easier than ever. I suppose its comparable to when you drive your unintercooled car on a really cool night, and the engine runs really crisp and everything is 'easy'.

The w2a radiator in front of the existing one (like a font mount) should in theory make the engine run a touch hotter, but as you've found there's obviously no problem with this. I had a blocked cat generating extra heat too, so I suspect this might be the reason for my engine temp drop. One thing not to worry about though!

As Slick said, if you can't get enough timing back in on boost with your high comp (shouldn't be a prob in normal driving), then water/meth will solve it. If you do need to go this route, let me know, as I have my old water injection setup for sale. I'd love to run it with my intercooler (it works awesome), but it's another system on my car that I'm happy to do without for the moment...I don't really have time to set it up. Its an ex. capa WI setup with almost all parts upgraded, so I suspect it would bolt in to a BA quite easily.

cheers,
Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:28 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I see what your saying slick but i have been running the 13psi pulley for some time now without the intercooler.....my tuner safe tuned it for me by taking out timing to make it reliable and there wasnt a great deal of timing that was taken out previouslly,also 10:7:1 on lpg with a 110 octane rating isnt really that high for the gas,petrol yes.

It will be getting another custom tune after the w2a goes on as well so i really dought it will go bang,these egas engines are a very strong engine also,if i cant get full timing back in then i will leave it at that i think.

lol i pull alot of weight around also joe,i really wanted more low end tourqe to make the stop starting take offs in the city driving easier.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:47 pm 
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With an octane rating of 110 on gas it's safe to say you can run what ever boost safely and it should be ok to advance the timing without any worries I reckon.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:49 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Well i have some good and bad news guys the bad news is i will be going back to the 9psi pulley,and im to busy at the moment to finish off the intercooler kit. :(

The good news is i have just handed the car over to autotech enginering to finish the kit,should be ready in a couple of weeks with a couple of otherthings being done also.

I had an idea to run the 32mm bov and plump it back to the intake on the raptors gearing system along with a y piece fitting to re-attach the cooling fan also....but the idea has been canned as i was told 28-40 degrees is pretty hot for this pupose...bugger.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:14 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Just come back from autotech still a couple of things to do but its getting there.

Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Nice! :wink:
keep us up to-date gaz.

 

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 Post subject: Re: water to air setup for raptor v supercharger on ba falcon
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:52 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Thanks slick,i will do.....just having trouble finding space mounting the twin 32mm bov`s at the moment,there isnt much room haha.

 

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