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351 Clevo Build for XD Wagon... Block casting & date ID 

 

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 Post subject: 351 Clevo Build for XD Wagon... Block casting & date ID
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:55 pm 
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Ride: 2003 Ba xr8, 1981 Ford XD 5.8ltr

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Hi, new here and hoping for some help with my 351 clevo is a new/fully rebuilt and slightly worked. Replacing the stock 351 in my 1981 Xd Falcon station wagon. Problem is It's the second time the roller on my Yella Terra Rocker has failed, except also this time the cam has worn about 3mm off the bottom of the valve lifter, which must of been stuck somehow? This is a new fully rebuilt Engine that's done less than 10,000km and was only 300km+3days old when the first set of rockers did basically the same thing, on the same cylinder and was sent back to the engine builder coming back with yella terra rockers... Long story about why i'm here trying to get info on this myself, instead of a replacement engine! but does anyone know of this type of problem with 351 clevo's and/or know of anyone in the Bendigo/Central Victoria region that would be best to look at it and tell me exactly what's going on and if actually fixable.. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (apparently the roller slips off and falls down the rod) Has stage3 cam, but not sure what block type etc sorry, never got full specs.

Last edited by MarcoR on Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:29 pm 
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I would be looking at rocker misalignment, rocker/valve tip geometery, valve spring coil bind and piston/valve clearance.

 

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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:35 pm 
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Thnx for the feedback mate. This is my biggest problem i think, that it's way over my local mechanic's head, but because it was them who ordered and installed the motor i'm stuck dealing with them and nothing seems to of been done right! I'm yet to ring back and see if they are actually going to try and charge me to fix it, but it sounds like all those parts need to be replaced and his talking about a stage 2 cam instead of 3 might help etc.... Sound's like a load of s**t to me and don't think i really want them screwing with it at all!! But They also saying the place that built it don't exist now... Not that i can seem to even get a business name of where it came from originally! Hardest thing is getting the block and internal specs to see if this thing has been put together right or not.. Hoping to get an idea of what internal parts/set up, it should have for a stage 3cam, yella terra rockers, It's fitted with extractors and has a Holly 770 avenger 4barrell carby. Running gear is, C10 Auto with B&M shifter, 500hrs pwr Drive Train to a 9inch conversion (3.00 ratio lsd) with Discs and 28 spline axles. Intake and Block Unknown and vehicle is currently at Mechanics, where i'm waiting to hear back since Monday on the cost of damages if was to repair.
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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:39 pm 
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Ride: 2003 Ba xr8, 1981 Ford XD 5.8ltr

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

Awesome line up of cars by the way.... My first car was a Canary Yellow TD Cortina with 4speed and 2ltr lol :-)
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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:56 pm 
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Ride: 2003 Ba xr8, 1981 Ford XD 5.8ltr

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

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Don't Know if these pics will tell you or anyone anything... But this is my troublesome rig! Try not to look at the paint lol

Last edited by MarcoR on Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:09 pm 
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ok, you've wiped a lobe, so need to check lifter to lifter bore clearance - the lifters should drop in freely,
if thats ok, then look at the heads and valves, springs, installed heights as you could be suffering coil bind.
Bad news is you've wiped a lobe so whole engine needs rebuilding as metal HAS gone through it
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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:11 pm 
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also i know someone around ballarat that can sort it for you if need be, pm me if you want hes details
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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:04 pm 
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Ride: 2003 Ba xr8, 1981 Ford XD 5.8ltr

Location: Bendigo
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Thanks again for your feedback mate and yeah it doesn't sound good and you're right on the money with what your saying, by the sounds of other feedback i have received... So i'm getting my mechanic to take engine the out so i can send it to a place in Bendigo called "Motivator Racing" who are going to strip it down and take a look at exactly what's going on and what the next best step with it would be.... All at my cost after spending over 15 grand is the part that really sucks! I'll keep this page updated as i go now though, because i just might need your advice again yet, lol... Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:56 am 
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Ride: 2003 Ba xr8, 1981 Ford XD 5.8ltr

Location: Bendigo
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Hi, Back again... ok, So engines out and have taken both it and my car to a friend's shed and given the Mechanic's the finger! Just in process of trying to identify my block & date stamp ID etc.. and have come to a couple of small (but frustrating) thing's i'm not sure about, but pretty sure anyone with some good knowledge of these engines just mite! So any feedback once again is very greatly accepted :-) So far from what i can decipher is that i have a, 4V-(4 Bolt sorry) North American block made in the Cleveland Factory on the 1st of Feb 1972 (the first year of production of cleveland block's in Australia). Apparently they shipped block's and even some casting's to Aus when first started production here, which also means they're are North American Casted block's that we're actually cast here in Australia.. Does anyone know what these block's may have been used for and if can actually clarify i'm correct? Also i'm still trying to find out what the "CA", "O" and the (either number or letter?) "I" after the "9B" (9BI) represent..? The full code is, D2AE-CA-0 9BI. The Foundry ID has the "CF" logo for Cleveland Factory with a "12" and "0" as well...?? I'll include the best pic's i have at this time and keep going with my research for now. Thanx again for your reading. regards, Marco.R

Last edited by MarcoR on Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XD 351 Clevo, valve lifter and roller rocker problems
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:04 am 
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 Post subject: Re: 351 Clevo Build for XD Wagon... Block casting & date ID
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:45 am 
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9B1 = casting date = 1979 February 1st. About right for an XD.

D2AE-CA = p/n of ALL aussie cast blocks and some USA cast blocks. It is assumed that these were simply the moulds that were shipped from USA to Aussie. Nothing special about the block. No such thing as a 4V block.

CF casting mark was used on ALL aussie cast blocks until the "black blocks" started about 1980 which had GF = geelong foundary. Black blocks have a smaller distributor shaft support hole, and don't have the valve cut-outs in the top of the cylinder bores that were needed for 4V valves.

A $15k engine should not be wearing a stock style oil pan, stock fuel pump or cast iron 2V heads, unless factory style parts are required for certain class racing applications. Get the complete build list from the engine builder

 

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 Post subject: Re: 351 Clevo Build for XD Wagon... Block casting & date ID
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:51 pm 
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Your "builder" ripped you hard! I feel bad for you.

bout 15k will get you something like this

Image

Thats a 393 Clevo.

640hp..


Pavtek Engines

Before spending another cent, I'd be looking at all my options. Clearly one of them is not going back to the same guy to get an engine built that any mechanic can screw together. Clevo's, like windsors and chev stuff are pretty easy to build. Particularly if they have done their trade correctly.

That engine that you have taken photos of looks like any other clevo that has been been sprayed in ford racing blue (restoration spray)

The gaskets and screws used all over it are clearly not fresh new items, everything about it simply suggests he has done a number on you. To compound and confirm this, he cannot provide you with a name as to where it came from.

Moving forward weigh up all your costs and talk to at least 3 recognised builders before spendig anymore money on it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 351 Clevo Build for XD Wagon... Block casting & date ID
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:28 pm 
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Ride: 2003 Ba xr8, 1981 Ford XD 5.8ltr

Location: Bendigo
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Thnx again for feedback guys, and yes that is exactly what i plan on doing! But not before i first figure out exactly what i have to work with myself and have a good idea of what i want done for the $'s i'm willing to spend..
So it's Heads, internals and 4bolt block verification for me nxt, (must admit i'm enjoying the hands on involvement at least) which has been half answered for me already thanx again :-)

So today i plan on, taking off rockett covers, oil pan and taking some happy snaps, (for you ever so helpful people mainly) along with an awful lot of follow up research i'm guessing!

Am sitting here while i type this, wondering if i'll have to pull the heads off for a full verification of internals? Also this being a "cast iron 2V head" am i going to be looking at getting aftermarket heads? I'm really hoping to be able to utilise as much as i can, with what i have... But i guess i'm still exploring the unknown untill i get a look inside this bloody thing!

Apparently closed port 2&4V heads are ok, but open port not so much? Best heads from my research are the Aussie made ones, that are a combination of both 2&4V, but hard to come across? Also a couple of aftermarket one's (that i can't remember off top of my head) all depending on other components though!

So i guess this is where it starts getting interesting for me, and probably also start getting a good idea of what i'm looking at $'s wise :-/ thnx again for all the help and will be post my next findings, which will be more "disappointment" i'm guessing!

P.S. I'm still trying to find out where this was built and who b... Cheers :-)

Last edited by MarcoR on Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 351 Clevo Build for XD Wagon... Block casting & date ID
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:02 pm 
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"LOOK" What found...
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Doesn't really tell me much though! Except how throwing money at someone because the "ONLY" thing you wanted, was thing's to be done "PROPERLY" doesn't mean you will get it :-/

This also does not include the $350.00 bill, i got after it was first sent back, or the $407.00 it just cost me, for them to look at it and pull out of the engine bay (once they told me it was going to be another $1,200-$2,000 to fix). At the time I said "WHAT" and had a mass argument with these guys! Unfortunately it seems cheaper and easier to yes... "Cut my losses and run" :-/

Thaught this (maybe at least) might help with some "Engine Build" decisions i may have to make soon

Last edited by MarcoR on Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 351 Clevo Build for XD Wagon... Block casting & date ID
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:35 pm 
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Doesn't look unreasonable. Thought you were saying it was a $15k engine. If you use a calculator it's just under $14k for recon engine, 9" diff, new driveshaft, a bunch of engine related components and a heap of labour. A couple of the items are OTT price-wise, but generally OK. That's just what things cost.

A $5k engine is fairly budget for a performance build - rebore = $400, crank grind = $350, recon heads = $1000, assemble engine = $750. Doesn't leave a lot for replacement parts (pistons, rings bearings, oil pump, restrictor kit, gaskets, cam, lifters, valves, springs, retainers, locks, timing set) and GST adds 10% to everything.

Use this as a learning experience and buy a crate motor from a reputable shop, or find a reconditioner with good references and listen to what he says you need to do to acheive your goal. If a reconditioner can't or won't give you 3 clients for verbal references of performance engine builds he has done in the past, try someone else. A Ford engine specialist helps, but clevo performance is a well worn path. Remember that part of the bill is the reconditioners experience - good ones charge more, but the result is usually superior. Bottom line, research prospective engine builders just like you would for any other major spend

FYI when I build a street performance cleveland engine I will typically spend around $3k on parts and machining. These are trade prices, and are for a long engine (no intake, carb, dizzy). I'll spend about 8-10 hours assembling the engine and 4 hours on the heads. The engine would sell for $6k incl GST. A lower price means fewer and lower quality parts are used = false economy as you have found out

 

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