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500hp street Xe. 

 

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 Post subject: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Hey everyone

I've been doing a lot of research into building a engine for my Xe sedan which is certified for a 351, Used to have a 351c and c4 in it, But has been removed.

Now, Right from day dot if been looking into building a 351 cleveland and stroking it to the likes of 393 or 408, Then after more research I starting reading into aftermarket blocks such as Dart blocks.

I recently started another thread about dart blocks to see if people thought they were worth it, Seeing as getting one to me, In New Zealand, will be a bit of an expensive.

I realise that with the dart blocks you can go with 4.125" bore to get right out to 427cubes, But I'm unsure on how safe running 4.125 is in regards to cylinder wall thickness.

After all of my current reading, It suddenly hit me that there is a completely other path I could take which I haven't even considered or looked into, The way of the 351 windsor!

So I'm looking for advice on how easy/hard it is to get 500hp out of a windors, Maybe some advantages or disadvantages in going down this path.

I Am Not Wanting To Start The Typical Cleveland Vs Windsor War :lol:

I have heard that windsor blocks are stronger but have trouble breathing, I also understand that this can be fixed with aftermarket heads?
What about Cleveland heads? Can these be fitted? (Like a boss engine)

Also, I've heard people saying Clevelands look far better than windsors, How can this be so?

Sorry about the 20 questions, But thank you in advanced for any help you can provide.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:07 pm 
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If you are going to go the clevland headed windsor path then by far the easiest solution would be a CHI head and intake package.
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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Clevelands are stronger than Windsors, especially the later EFI Windsors.

Do up a Clevo mate.
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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Dart or World or Ford racing blocks have much thicker walls so even bigger bores like 4.2" are possible. World does a 460ci version in fact.

Stock 351w blocks are not really stronger than a cleveland block.

A windsor is slightly lighter due to it's ally timing cover and smaller heads but, there's not much in it after you fit alloy heads,intake and water pump to either engine.

You can put any head on either engine and in either case you'd use aftermarket alloys. There's just no off the shelf intake to suit a windsor head on a cleveland block.

It's very easy to get more than 500hp out of a windsor...you'll need custom headers if you stay with windsor heads or possibly modified cleveland headers if you use cleveland heads.

The 3" main bearing size of a 351w is often touted as being a problem. It's only a problem if you're doing stratospheric rpm for extended periods something not often done with street engines. You can actually buy spacer kits to bring it down to 2.75" cleveland main size but I wouldn't bother and never have for my street windsors.

The extra .3" of deck height of a windsor block allows for increased displacement with a more durable piston compression height/ring package. There's off-the-shelf kits for 418ci windsors and some old designs where they got 435ci out of a stock block windsor. I would have no worries using a 418 kit with the obvious torque advantages of such displacement.

At the end of the day it's a matter of personal choice. If you don't want to do custom headers my choice would be an aftermarket big bore 9.2" deck block for about 427ci with CHI heads and intake.

What an engine looks like is a matter of opinion....who f**k cares!?
For example, I bet I'll get a few people thinking I have a cleveland here just because of the rocker covers which look like Boss rocker covers but are made for a windsor head....
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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:04 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
At the end of the day it's a matter of personal choice. If you don't want to do custom headers my choice would be an aftermarket big bore 9.2" deck block for about 427ci with CHI heads and intake.



So like a 9.2" dart block, 4.125 bore, Cleveland mains and a 408 crank?
Like :http://www.dartheads.com/products/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/51/

Is dart the best aftermarket block?

Is it safe to go right out to 427ci? Not gonna start getting thin? Will it still be able to have a rebuild some day?

Thanks for the great advice!

 

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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Dax wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
At the end of the day it's a matter of personal choice. If you don't want to do custom headers my choice would be an aftermarket big bore 9.2" deck block for about 427ci with CHI heads and intake.



So like a 9.2" dart block, 4.125 bore, Cleveland mains and a 408 crank?
Like :http://www.dartheads.com/products/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/51/

Is dart the best aftermarket block?

Is it safe to go right out to 427ci? Not gonna start getting thin? Will it still be able to have a rebuild some day?

Thanks for the great advice!


The link you provided has the answers already in it...did you actually read it?
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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:41 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
The link you provided has the answers already in it...did you actually read it?


Yes, I just thought I better check lol.

What is the difference, If any, In Dart, World and Ford performance blocks? Which is better?

 

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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:33 pm 
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ive got a hefty 393 Clevo with CHI 3V's .... go for it mate iam so happy with my combo !!! i do recomend getting your block machined (crack tested,line bored ,decked,cyilinder thickness tested) before screwing it together,these blocks are old and no 2 blocks are the same, i opted to resin fill my block to the welshplugs, and run a girdle on the bottom end as aposed to going 4 bolt mains, Clevos are great and a bit cheaper on parts to, the clevo has a hell of a lot of aftermarket gofast bits these days , Go the Clevo you wont be disapointed !!

 

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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Good to see another Dunedinite on the forums!

 

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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:02 pm 
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XFWAGON wrote:
Good to see another Dunedinite on the forums!


Actually me bruvver in law is from there.
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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:20 am 
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XFWAGON wrote:
Good to see another Dunedinite on the forums!


Sweet as, I'll have to keep an eye out for ya car :P


I've been emailing a few places around New Zealand trying to find someone who can supply a dart block and prices, As of yet, I havn't heard back from any yet.

I'm also looking for a good std Cleveland block.

I just have a few questions, Couple of things I don't understand:

1. If I was to go with a dart block, Is the 9.5" deck height block right for me? Or is it gonna cause issues with the rods?

2.Again, with the dart block, Am I correct in saying if I go with 4.000 bore I can go to 408ci and still have HUGE cylinder wall thickness, Or 4.125 and go with 426ci and have standard thickness?

3. If I went with either of those options, Can I fit cleveland heads?

4. Would it then be a windsor or cleveland build?

Thanks again :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:31 am 
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1. If I was to go with a dart block, Is the 9.5" deck height block right for me? Or is it gonna cause issues with the rods?

DO you want 9.2 or 9.5?
Neither will cause issues with rods.

2.Again, with the dart block, Am I correct in saying if I go with 4.000 bore I can go to 408ci and still have HUGE cylinder wall thickness, Or 4.125 and go with 426ci and have standard thickness?

Even at 4.125 you will still have better wall thickness than a stock block that's .060" over.

3. If I went with either of those options, Can I fit cleveland heads?

Yes, for the 4 millionth time.

4. Would it then be a windsor or cleveland build?

You could call it a cleavor.

Thanks again :)[/quote]
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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:37 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
DO you want 9.2 or 9.5?
Neither will cause issues with rods.


Apart from the 9.2 being way more expensive, What other difference is there? Like, will they both fit under my bonnet?

XR9UTE wrote:
If I went with either of those options, Can I fit cleveland heads?

Yes, for the 4 millionth time.


Haha, Sorry. :oops:

 

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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:55 am 
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There's no difference in cost.
Bonnet clearance depends entirely on intake choice.
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 Post subject: Re: 500hp street Xe.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:58 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
There's no difference in cost.
Bonnet clearance depends entirely on intake choice.


http://www.dartheads.com/products/engine-blocks/ford-small-blocks/shp-ford-small-blocks.html

As far as I can see, That only has 9.5

Only seems to be the iron eagle block which has the 9.2 option.

 

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