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Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Got the timing set to 32, goes a s**t LOAD better, really quick. Although now I have new problems. Have discovered I have a vac leak coming from somewhere on the right bank, I'm thinking it's the vac hoses underneath the plenum. It hisses for about 5 seconds on engine shutdown and gradually fades away.

Also I now have bucking while cruising, it mostly goes away when I give it more pedal but when just cruising along it bucks very badly. I'm thinking the AU TPS combined with the VAC leak?

It bucks very badly at around 2100rpm and below. When I took it out for the test drive tonight it was bucking a bit, after about half an hour of driving it was just about snapping my neck, so in the interests of my poor T5 which was making some clunking noise during the bucking, I parked it up.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:24 am 
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Did you get the emissions or non emissions kit? With my heads, there were 2 dirty great big holes at the back of the heads for EGR which weren't blocked off upon installation. You may want to check these.

I spent countless hours trying to tune the bucking out of my car when cruising at 1500rpm and lower. With this combo it seems to be something we've got to live with. The TFS1 cam in manuals seems to do this all over the world! With a tune you should get it better, though.

The hesitation that you mentioned will be accel enrichment, which adds fuel when you open the throttle above a certain rate. It will be due to too much enrichment, choking it momentarily before taking off.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Scaffy wrote:
Did you get the emissions or non emissions kit? With my heads, there were 2 dirty great big holes at the back of the heads for EGR which weren't blocked off upon installation. You may want to check these.

I spent countless hours trying to tune the bucking out of my car when cruising at 1500rpm and lower. With this combo it seems to be something we've got to live with. The TFS1 cam in manuals seems to do this all over the world! With a tune you should get it better, though.

The hesitation that you mentioned will be accel enrichment, which adds fuel when you open the throttle above a certain rate. It will be due to too much enrichment, choking it momentarily before taking off.


Yeah, I bought two more thermactor plugs to fill these in, just like the front thermactor plugs.

I also tapped the small EGR holes in the heads and plugged them with a bolt with it's head milled and some metal weld araldite.

Have you got different diff gears other than 3:27/3:45? I've been considering some 3.7's but don't know anywhere in my town that does diffs.


I'm actually starting to wonder if this ECU has been modified, as before I put the TFS kit on, it bucked a bit under 2k, but is even worse now with the TFS gear. The ecu looked pretty grubby when I got it too.

You reckon the accel enrichment could be to do with the AU TPS giving different voltages?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:51 pm 
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I've got 3.7s in my car.

I take it you've set the TPS to ~.98? I don't think there should be any difference using an AU TPS.

Every modified car I've tuned, it's needed accel enrichment reduced to smooth the transition as you accelerate.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Scaffy wrote:
I've got 3.7s in my car.

I take it you've set the TPS to ~.98? I don't think there should be any difference using an AU TPS.

Every modified car I've tuned, it's needed accel enrichment reduced to smooth the transition as you accelerate.



How do you find the 3.7's? I've been thinking for quite some time about a set of those, as the T5 with the 2.95 gear set and my 3.27 diff, make for looooong legs.

Yes, TPS is currently set at .96, was the closest I could get so I tightened it up.

Car now drives fine, no hesitation but bucks like crazy. Just been looking at a few 'Stang forums and a few people have had the same symptoms with big vac leaks. And I can hear a huge vac leak when the car is idling, and when it turns off it hisses for 10-15 seconds, but if it's had a good amount of driving, the leak screams for about 1-2s (obviously air leaving quicker).

So today, in the pouring rain (Summer..... haha) I took the manifold off again, and sure enough there was a HUGE leak. Don't know how this happened considering all hold down nuts/bolts were torqued to specs. Check out the gasket below.
Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Whoa that's a quite a leak! Managed to get it fixed & running again?


XFWAGON wrote:
Scaffy wrote:
I've got 3.7s in my car.

I take it you've set the TPS to ~.98? I don't think there should be any difference using an AU TPS.

Every modified car I've tuned, it's needed accel enrichment reduced to smooth the transition as you accelerate.



How do you find the 3.7's? I've been thinking for quite some time about a set of those, as the T5 with the 2.95 gear set and my 3.27 diff, make for looooong legs.

Yes, TPS is currently set at .96, was the closest I could get so I tightened it up.

Car now drives fine, no hesitation but bucks like crazy. Just been looking at a few 'Stang forums and a few people have had the same symptoms with big vac leaks. And I can hear a huge vac leak when the car is idling, and when it turns off it hisses for 10-15 seconds, but if it's had a good amount of driving, the leak screams for about 1-2s (obviously air leaving quicker).

So today, in the pouring rain (Summer..... haha) I took the manifold off again, and sure enough there was a HUGE leak. Don't know how this happened considering all hold down nuts/bolts were torqued to specs. Check out the gasket below.
Image

 

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Long rod 306, TFS 11R 205cc heads, SHP camshaft, 1.72 R/R, ported TFS Box R, 400hp NX SHO kit...

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:44 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I found the 3.7s with my manual to be awesome. I went from 3.23s and the change was extremely noticable. Let us know how you go with the bucking issue.

Here's an interesting thread on the matter... http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... 54&start=0

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:34 pm 
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BOTTLEDUP wrote:
Whoa that's a quite a leak! Managed to get it fixed & running again?




No, not yet :evil:

Upon taking the manifold off, and then back on, I noticed one of the upper long bolts wasn't torqueing down properly. It would get to just before 20lb of torque, then spin. Inspection of the hole revealed that it's missing about half an inch of thread!

I had originally swore numerous times and convinced myself that TFS had sent me a dud lower, but then the lower portion of the hole still had thread so the top half must have been threaded too, obviously.

Which then lead me to look at other things, If you look at that photo, you will see one of the injector plug wires hanging over the heater bypass pipe, what had happened was this got sandwiched between the underside of the upper manifold while it was being torqued down, and had given me false readings (causing the vac leak), but also the steel bolt must have stripped the soft alloy threads....trying to pull it down...if that makes sense.

So anyway, I'm now waiting on a replacement pair of bolts from Summit, the TFS bolts used with the 1" phenolic spacer kit, but obviously I'll only being using one of the bolts and no spacer.

Summit took what felt like forever until they were finally picked up by I-parcel, then the tracking details told me that the "package has been flagged for review of the contents prior to export" and it has been sitting at I-parcel in Carlstadt, NJ for 4 days. Ordered these damn bolts last SATURDAY, it has now been 10 days and they still haven't left the US.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Red cars cause terrible luck.

Scaffy wrote:
I found the 3.7s with my manual to be awesome. I went from 3.23s and the change was extremely noticable. Let us know how you go with the bucking issue.

Here's an interesting thread on the matter... http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... 54&start=0


Excellent, just what I wanted to hear. I'm finding that with the AU T5's 2.95 a*** (as opposed to the E-series with the 3.35(?) a***), and my 3:27 diff, each gear seems to last for eternity.

My mates EB XR8, factory manual, just feels like it's got much better acceleration even just with the different gearbox. So I'm hoping 3.7's really liven the car up more, so what you say is music to my ears.

Thanks for the reading, I feel I'm going to have to do a hell of a lot of research and then buy a Quarterhorse. Most of that article made no sense to me.... yet.

I notice in your build thread you do a lot of tuning yourself, how hard was it to begin with?

Would you recommend I get a pre installed tune on the Quarterhorse and go from there (at a large cost by the looks of it), or what? What software do you use to tune/datalog?

I have an Autometer wideband with data logging features, but will have to research on how to wire it up correctly.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:04 am 
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For tuning the Quarterhorse I use Binary Editor. That also does the datalogging, too. If I remember correctly, you're using an EB GT EEC, so the complete strategy is available, of which is comparible to what the guys in the US have available for the Mustangs. Registering Binary Editor comes in at US$100 and registering the strategy is around US$25.

I've been tuning with these for a while now. There's a heap of helpful info on eectuning.org, with good guides in the FAQ section that weren't there when I started out. It's much easier getting a handle on things when you have the software there in front of you and looking at what's being written about.

Starting with the 2DCA (2DDA?) should be pretty straight forward. Injector settings are all pretty well set and it'll just be a matter of tweaking things from there. Dialing in idle air, dialing in your fuel, adjusting spark, etc, etc. There is a lot to do, but if you read a lot and take small steps, you should be fine.

Also, your wideband should have another 5v output, which you can wire into the EVP (EGR Valve Position) pin in the EEC, which will then allow you to datalog your wideband readings in Binary Editor.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Yes, I'm using the 2DCA. I spotted it also on that link you posted in the directory.

I will have to pm you when I buy the QH and find out some more info. I pick things up pretty quickly once I understand what's going on.

Eectuning is going to be my bed time reading from now on 8-)


Put the car back together tonight after having the bolts turn up (nice surprise).

Still bucks, just not as bad. Still has that hiss on engine shutdown, so I dunno what the hell is going on. Was too damn cold to keep working on it, but I took it for a few runs and it pulls hard, just has a few areas that the tune should fix up.

Here is a clip, sorry for the quality, was kind of hard to hold my phone while changing gears etc.
If you have good speakers and listen carefully, you can hear the bucking early on in the clip.

http://youtu.be/ztcnjmpW8r4

Car revs great, just needs diff gears now to help with the accel!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:41 pm 
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PCV etc connected ??
Unless throttle blade closes completely shut
to prevent run on ??
It can be tuned differently now..
Mine with E303 & F303 cam would jump around under 2000 rpm
also.. The fix back then was to drill larger hole in throttle plate
then adjust TPS ..
This would give the engine more air / higher idle with corrected TPS voltage
it run fine...
This can be sorted with Moates tune now...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:14 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
PCV etc connected ??
Unless throttle blade closes completely shut
to prevent run on ??
It can be tuned differently now..
Mine with E303 & F303 cam would jump around under 2000 rpm
also.. The fix back then was to drill larger hole in throttle plate
then adjust TPS ..
This would give the engine more air / higher idle with corrected TPS voltage
it run fine...
This can be sorted with Moates tune now...


Yes, PCV connected and all vac lines checked.

Throttle shuts completely, I had it spaced so it it sat properly but the blade wouldn't snap shut quick enough so I had to revert back.

I'm hoping to sort out a Moates chip in the next few months, the money seems to trickle in slower and slower.


While I was playing around today, I noticed it was making some funny noises just after start up, kind of like a faint chirping, it would then go away. On engine shut down though, it lets off a big squeal and then hisses for about 10-20 seconds.

Has me stumped!! I've tightened spark plugs, manifolds, headers etc etc. Can't think of anything else it can be.

Here is a short clip, you will hear the squeal near the end. Can't miss it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw8UrNBE ... e=youtu.be

 

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Last edited by XFWAGON on Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:25 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Can't access the clip, but it sounds exactly like what mine used to do. Do you have a high pitched whistling that sounds like it's coming from the intake, mainly at idle? This is quite common with the BBK throttle bodies.

 

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When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:47 am 
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Scaffy wrote:
Can't access the clip, but it sounds exactly like what mine used to do. Do you have a high pitched whistling that sounds like it's coming from the intake, mainly at idle? This is quite common with the BBK throttle bodies.


Should be able to access it now, its unlisted so the link should go straight there.

It makes this sound with the engine off, and not a very pleasant sound either. I have read about qhistling tb's but im using a 70mm Tickford, ao wouodnt think it would do it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Advance/Retard Problems, TFS Top End Kit
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:56 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Keep in mind there's a fare amount of vacuum in your plenum,
inlet runners..
Not that it's the correct way of setting it up..
What happens if you turn idle screw up so ISC
doesn't close throttle on turn off ???
On my Cobra T/B blade it had a small 6/ 8mm hole
in the blade...
It made a scchhhaa for a second when shutting down..
If the blade closes completly ??
I assume it would extend the
suction noise ??

 

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As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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