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au v8 in to xc 

 

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 Post subject: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:52 am 
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hi i want to put my au v8 into my xc will i need to run the computer
can i run a cable to run the original xc speedo
i have a full donor car was going to sell the au fairmont 7 seater then decided to donate the parts from it any ideas????
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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:48 am 
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08trump0 wrote:
hi i want to put my au v8 into my xc will i need to run the computer
can i run a cable to run the original xc speedo
i have a full donor car was going to sell the au fairmont 7 seater then decided to donate the parts from it any ideas????


yep you will neep a computer to run the efi n all that.
no speed is taken from the abs sensor i believe so no cable speedo.
and good luck. its a big job.

 

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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:04 pm 
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You can get in-line electronic adapters for the speedo cables. So the cable will come out of the box and go into the adapter and come out the other side. I've used Fox Body Mustang ones in the past which have a VR pickup. You should be able to get this sort of thing from instrument specialists.
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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:31 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
You can get in-line electronic adapters for the speedo cables. So the cable will come out of the box and go into the adapter and come out the other side. I've used Fox Body Mustang ones in the past which have a VR pickup. You should be able to get this sort of thing from instrument specialists.


I have searched high & low for such a device without success - variable reluctance sensors of this cable-through-body style are readily available as they were OE fitment to Fox body Mustangs, but nothing similar for (10 count?) hall effect sensors as used by Aussie falcons that I could find anywhere. Who by and where are they sold?

 

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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:38 pm 
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For what its worth I had a similar (kind of) problem when I put an XF 4 speed in my XB - electronic output on the XF box - so I got an XF dash, pulled the speedo apart and adapted the mechanism into my XB speedo. 3 wires from the g box and done! Took me an afternoon to figure out and complete the entire mechanism, now I have a nice accurate speedo without a jumpy needle like lots of older speedo cars have...

 

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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:55 pm 
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Yep that way works with some effort. I've squeezed an electronic speedo head into a few 50's & 60's mechanical speedo housings.

But if you want to run a BTR and/or EEC you need the sensor signal, and with a mechanical speedo you also need the cable drive. So after I couldn't find a suitable sender (although the above comment indicates maybe they are available somewhere) I built a jig to modify the tailshaft housing to run 2 outputs off the drive gear - one for BTR/EEC, the other for a mechanical cable.

 

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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:54 pm 
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I've never used the Hall effect devices but I've seen them used on a couple of street rods and an XD. They got them locally in Perth so I'd say Aisat or Flexdrive agencies would be where they came from.
I just modify the VR output of the mustang one with a little circuit to convert to a square wave or mod the VSS input of the EEC or, if available use the software switch in the EEC to change from VR to HE or vice versa.
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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:46 pm 
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xafalcon wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
You can get in-line electronic adapters for the speedo cables. So the cable will come out of the box and go into the adapter and come out the other side. I've used Fox Body Mustang ones in the past which have a VR pickup. You should be able to get this sort of thing from instrument specialists.


I have searched high & low for such a device without success - variable reluctance sensors of this cable-through-body style are readily available as they were OE fitment to Fox body Mustangs, but nothing similar for (10 count?) hall effect sensors as used by Aussie falcons that I could find anywhere. Who by and where are they sold?


I first read this post last year. It's bugged me that the question hasn't been answered yet.


See http://www.brantz.co.nz/sensors.html

I've used these for 23 years when working land surving, compliance engineering and maintenance contracts. The Haldameter, Tripmaster and Brantz meters run off pulse generators. Most I've used have been in electronic speedo Hiluxes and Hiaces, but early meachanical speedo drives for earlier Nissans, Holdens and earlier Toyota (t171 Coronaries and AE92 Corollaires etc).

[In network maintenace, the accuracy is 1 part per thousand, so if your tyres are 650 mm tall, everytime you loose 0.65 mm of tread (0.325 mm tread depth loss as measured at the wheel, you have to recalibrate your Brantz meter). Since a standard tyre lasts less than 40 000 km's and is 12 mm deep, the kit has to be able to be recalibrated to cover tyre wear of up to 3.8%. Funny thing is, the kit itself can only be calibrated to 1 part in about 400 anyway, so the requirments are like Aussie speed limit accuracies, all a crock of shizenhauser].

The VDO XD-XF setup should be able to be emulated by either of these items.

Image

Image

see also http://www.brantz.co.nz/man_sensors.html#pre_scaler

I'm not to sure of cost, as I buy them part an parcel of the Brantz meter purchases I make. I've done these an Aussie RHD Explorer UR, a RAV4.0 (SXA10), and an 81 Fox body Mustang, but I use both a diff pinion /uni bolt prescaler and an internal front disc wheel stud to measure not skid leading wheel speed, and a prescaler which Brantz supply. It's my pick, because you can do a burn out with an open wheeler diff like I have on my Stang, and you can pick which set of pulses go to the Brantz. I use this for determining skid when checking skid resistance on public roads when doing inspections. Traction braking is illegal under hoon legislation, but it happens all the time when I try to but down all of 67 rear wheel horsepower through one 200 section tyre on low polished stone value chip seal or bitumen.
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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Fox bodies, including T birds from 1980-1982, 83 LTD's, and certainly Continental Compacts and LSC's have some really cool 80's tech Electronic VF dashes, sythersizers, and on board trip computers. So Ford America were sorting out how to deal with EEC3 ThrottleBody EFI set ups with the advent of the 1978 Fox cars.

I'm busy fitting up a whole raft of electronic sensors on my 81 Stang for road roughness, but I was supprised to find O2 sensors and this VR sensor were standard on all Foxes around my year and onwards. Bit of a joke fitting 1 grand on all the reading gear(PC Survey master with video plug in etc)top notch gear from the UK, when Ford had all the stuff on the options list of most Fox bodies from 1980 on in various variants.

Here is the doodad that I set up, only to find that the cruise control runs off a variable Reluctor disk on the standard cable speedo drive which could do all that work with a little bit of parts raiding from the US wreckers. Dough!

ImageImage

Cant say enough about my experiences with the Brantz set up. Its serviced in NZ, and the sensors have got better and better each year. The current Bernstein sensor yields a 4.2 to 2.0 volt square wave form. In my case it was 4.95 to 0.79 volts.

Image

It glows green when polling, and it can fit on the dust sheild of any Ford with a little thought. Mine polls the four 4.25" studs like it would in a Cortina 6. The X-shell Falcs have 5 on 4.5", so that's where the sensor has to go

Image

It allows distance and speed for Brantz Survey Master, and other applications. When I hooked it up to my Mustang, I had both the Fox VR sensor from the cruise control which does tailshaft speed and this one on my front LHS wheel

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:36 am 
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A two post update to this...What a very strange, but very cool system the Fox VR is.. It's just the 8000 plips per mile, early EECIV compatibale 8 pulse per speedo cable revolution VRS system, with a variable voltage sqaure wave form from 20 mph onwards. It does have some funny features on sub 20 mph voltage polling, technically able to poll back down to 7 mph in some circumstances.

Certain versions of the EEC III, EEC IV and most EEC V's require an 8000 pulse per mile vehicle speed sensor signal from the PSOM (speedo module), which is just like all other EEC-IV equipped vehicles

Other later EEC V applications use a 16000 or 40000 pulse per mile VSS signal.



I'm told that some of the CFI or Speed Density AOD Fox varaints poll down to 7 mph, and allow idle speed conditioning.



Sadly, the periodic zero moh to 19.9 mph null readings won't do what I need it to do, as like some ABS circuits, it has no reliable squarewave below 20 mph to log distance travelled. Its circumstantial, and as such, presnts a Major Bummmer.....

I could probably use a prescaler to create a digital sqaure wave form from an SN95 Mustang hub, but I can get another Proximity sensor tommorw in the post for 115 NZ dollars.


I jacked up my car, and ran the standard Hetz, A/C Voltage and Ohms resistance checks from zero to 62 mph, with my metric speedo registering in KM/H. Note that there is no voltage going up to 32 km/h or 20 mph, but once invoked, the voltage can be recorded right donw to zero, so there is an interesting voltage speed, Hertz resolution

0 km/h, 0 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC
12 km/h, 7.4 mph, but 0.016 volts AC on over run
See picture
Image
20 km/h, 12.4 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC
30 km/h, 18.6 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC, but 0.033 volts AC on overun
See picture
Image
32 km/h, 19.9 mph 0 Hz, 0.00 volts AC
32.2 km/h, 20.0 mph, 0 Hz, 0.019 volts AC
40 km/h, 24.9 mph 0.056 volts AC
50 km/h, 31.1 mph, 0.083 volts AC
60 km/h, 37.3 mph 102 Hz, 0.109 volts AC
70 km/h, 43.5 mph, 0.149 volts AC
80 km/h, 49.7 mph 0.186 volts AC
88 km/h, 54.7 mph 125 Hz, 0.223 volts AC
See picture
Image
100 km/h 62.1 mph, 0.273 volts AC
See picture
Image


The square wave form kicks in after 19.9 mph on the upward rise, with zero Hertz cycles per second on my Cat IV multimetervoltage and the voltage increasing steadily from 20 mph on upwards.


The on the decilne after 20 mph, it records right down to 7 mph, assumably for the one Speed Desnity AOD car that needed idle speed control...

Now,
If you want to create an EECIV XF- EECV AU style 8000 pulse per mile and proporotional to 102Hz at 60km/h sensor, you can use the Bernstein three wire sensor.

Bernstein D-32457 Porta Westfallca

Part number 6932303001 K1B-M12NS_002-KL2 10-30VDC 200mA IP67

I've used it with considerable sucess for situations where I don't have a VSS sensor.

For Aussie cars that don't use the dopey Cortina/Escort/Capri/ early Mustang 4.25" four bolt hubs, a really good 8000 pulser per mile, a standard 5 stud brake disc can have five additional bolt heads driiled/tapped and epoxied to the back, making a square wave form out put of 2 to 4.2 volts per bolt head.


A standard 660 mm tyre will become a 3% smaller tyre under load, and at 641 mm, 10 bolt heads is a reading of 8000 pulses per mile, or a pulse every 201.3 mm. One mile is 1609.34 meters, and thats 7995 pulses per mile, or about 102 cycles per second at 16.666 meters a second or 60 km/h.

I use a 6575 pulse per mile 4 stud hub on my 190/65 390 TRX tyred Mustang with an extra four bolts epoxied to the hub, and that gives a pulse every 244.75 mm.

I've destroyed a few sesnors by mounting them too close to the ball joints, and smacked em up over speed humps, and they don't like reverse polarity. The brown and blue wires are pulse, the black wire is for 12 volt feed.


It's the best way of making a continous square wave form I know. Its been used for years in rally cars and network drive over vehicles.
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 Post subject: Re: au v8 in to xc
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:45 am 
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I've tried to make the Fox VR sensor work, but its designed for other purposes Ford engineers had in mind in the late 70's, not for a roading technician's list of must haves. I was hoping that the 8 plips per revolution reluctor would allow a square wave form logging down to "stop start" walking speed, as required by Autocross Halda, Brantz and other Route position meter. But it doesn't. There are other speedo pickups that do, the Fox system isn't really difficult, but I wanted a truly digital solution. Ford system is half digital, half anologue, and it hasn't helped me.


I had no choice but to set up another Bernstein proximity sensor, and JB Weld/Devcon expoxy in four extra M10 30 mm long set screws with the hex head filled in with a cut down Allen keyhead Arildited to the set screw.

Mr Bernstein, JB Weld, Mr Allen and Mr Tu Pack Araldite® from Selley's Australia saved my life

IMG_6613.jpg
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IMG_6596.jpg
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IMG_6609.jpg
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IMG_6612.jpg
Image


It was a lot harder, I thought I could just drill four holes, and run an M10 1.5 MM tap and die through it, but there wasn't enough metal to do it.

The requiremnt I have is to be able to log distances of 9-1/2 inches along the road, and with a four stud wheel and 77 inch rollout (loaded) 190/65 390 tire, I can get down to only 19.3 inches with four studs, or 15.5 inches five stud.

I can't fit 10 studs on the inner wheel pitch center diameter, so I'm stuck with 8 3/4" bolt heads on a 108 mm 4-1/4" PCD, and that's going to have to be used when I go Five stud as well.

I've repositioned the sesnor on to the kingpin since this post, and I've got enough space to fit a 10 bolt even spaced sesnor ring on the back of a fiour stud brake disk...that's my next project.

Hope this has helped somone here...
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