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BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators? 

 

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 Post subject: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:18 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: AU XR8 220 Manual

Hi all,

I am saving for my next car, I am looking at both BF XR8s, GT'S and FG XR8s.

I have read alot about oil pump gears being required if you up the rev limit when tuning. I know these engines need to rev to make big power so at some stage this is going to happen. Is this only recommended on the 260 boss or do the 290s suffer from the same problem?

Also what does is cost to have these changed?

Next, what about oil seperators? why do these engines burn so much oil? are these also required on the 290s in the fg xr8s?

There were also some rumored issues with timing chains and tensioners on the original 260 bosses, were these all fixed in the bf xr8, gt and fg models?

Lastly what sort of performance increase can I expect from the standard mods, full exhaust, air intake (blue power) and a tune? could I get close to 300rwkw safely?

thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 28

Posts: 540

Joined: 9th Aug 2007

Ride: FG Ute, ED XR8 Sprint, GPZ900R

Location: Leopold, Geelong
VIC, Australia

I've recently gone through all this with my BAII XR8 which I had for a few months. It's a 6 speed manual with 70,000kms on the clock and I started off with a full di fillippo exhaust, bluepower CAi and tune by chris. Now i was kinda hoping for around the 240rwkw mark and even chris said this car is ballsy but we just couldn't squeeze anymore then 230rwkw out of it. He said it will be from oil getting sucked up the PCV valve into the plenum and collecting in there. So I grabbed a mate whos a local ford mechanic and we took the plenum off and sure enough there was quite alot of oil sitting there, so we cleaned it out. Sure enough I noticed the car had responded nicely to our work and it felt more pokey. So then i decided to get the oil breather kit from herrods ($360 I think), easy to install, and last time I took the throttlebody off and shone a torch in there It looked pretty damn good, but its hard to tell unless you take the plenum off. I also got the helix spacer as I come across one quite cheap, I wouldn't reccomend it unless you had exhausted other avenues first as I did notice a small increase, but the money they ask for retial could be better spent elsewhere. The oil pump gears are made out of crappy metal, and when car rev limiter has been raised it could potentially turn to s**t and cause all sort of havoc. Most people replace these with a billet item (myabe $700-$800) as they are strong and allow the rev limiter to be raised considerably. I will be getting billet oil pump gears and underdrive pulleys when funds allow and then maybe I can lift the rev limiter a bit. I think at the moment its at 6200. maybe you should send data_mine a pm as he knows quite a lot about modding the Boss motors and has helped me with things before. Good luck

 

_________________

The Past: EF Fairmont, EL Fairmont 5.0, HR Special, NF Fairlane 5.0, GSX 250-F, BA II XR8, VS3 Ute, VS2 L67 Calais

The Present: FG Egas Ute, ED XR8 Sprint, GPZ 900R

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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:11 pm 
ACT Cruise Moderator
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Age: 36

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Joined: 24th Nov 2004

Ride: '06 BF GT-P

Power: 293 rwkw

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

TUF250 wrote:
Hi all,

I am saving for my next car, I am looking at both BF XR8s, GT'S and FG XR8s.

I have read alot about oil pump gears being required if you up the rev limit when tuning. I know these engines need to rev to make big power so at some stage this is going to happen. Is this only recommended on the 260 boss or do the 290s suffer from the same problem?

Also what does is cost to have these changed?


All BOSSes need them with higher rev limiter and/or underdrive balancer (and it's worse if you've got a manual, so definitely do it)

As the balancer, and timing cover needs to be removed, change to an underdrive balancer at the same time (save on labour). The gears are ~700 + labour (few hours)

Image
Image

TUF250 wrote:
Next, what about oil seperators? why do these engines burn so much oil? are these also required on the 290s in the fg xr8s?


Early BA 260/290's would burn oil if the rings weren't bedded in properly. FPV changed the rings to prevent that as a running change in BA, so all BF and FG's will be fine.

Lots of high-RPM action will see a lot of oil vapour being sucked through the PCV system into the inlet tract, and it'll often condense and pool in the upper intake (the plenum). Catch cans/separators prevent this.

TUF250 wrote:
There were also some rumored issues with timing chains and tensioners on the original 260 bosses, were these all fixed in the bf xr8, gt and fg models?


This fixed in BF. It's easy and cheap enough to fix in a BA too. Again requires balancer and timing cover removed, so get pump/underdrive done at the same time.

TUF250 wrote:
Lastly what sort of performance increase can I expect from the standard mods, full exhaust, air intake (blue power) and a tune? could I get close to 300rwkw safely?

thanks!


You won't get 300rwkw from a 260 (you'd need a bottom end rebuild for higher compression, cams etc.)
I've got a BF 290, and am almost there.
A BF 302 will get there easier, as will a FG 315. (they've both got more compression than a 290)

FWIW, my 290 did 240rwkw stock (compared to the effort Burns spent to get to 230). They're a much better starting point than the 260's (they don't have enough compression to make use of any extra mods - intake, cams etc.)

 

_________________

1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:14 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 31

Posts: 771

Joined: 20th Nov 2005

Ride: AU XR8 220 Manual

greta information guys, thank you!

so really the bf and fg is the place to start.

I would really like to keep putting money together and get an fg xr8 if i can, more modern, lower millage and of course the bf gt engine.

So I if i were to get a BF onwards boss the only issue I have to get delt with is the oil pump gears?

How are these motors in terms of reliabilty and how are they to drive, still havnt taken one for a drive yet. do they better suit the auto or manual?

If i was to do the typical mods, full exhaust and extractors, bluepower airbox and a tune what sort of rwkw figure and 0-100 times might it manage?

PS your gt in your sig looks great!~

thanks
Jason
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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:32 pm 
ACT Cruise Moderator
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Age: 36

Posts: 6275

Joined: 24th Nov 2004

Ride: '06 BF GT-P

Power: 293 rwkw

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

The FG XR8 engine, while also doing 290kw, isn't the same as the BF GT spec engines. The GT spec engines are built better with better components.

Mine's been faultless in over 130,000ks of daily abuse, skid pan events, track days, and drag strip passes.

The 6 speed options are both good. Test drive the manual, some say the shifting is 'agricultural' (bit rough), but a short shifter should help that.

While I've gone a shorter diff than factory the dyno run, drag pass, and specs are in the sig.

A shorter diff is a great bang for buck mod, lots of extra acceleration.

 

_________________

1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:47 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 31

Posts: 771

Joined: 20th Nov 2005

Ride: AU XR8 220 Manual

thats interesting about the diff. the zf 6 speeds have about a 2.73 ratio from memory? what did you change it to?
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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:54 am 
ACT Cruise Moderator
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User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 6275

Joined: 24th Nov 2004

Ride: '06 BF GT-P

Power: 293 rwkw

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

TUF250 wrote:
thats interesting about the diff. the zf 6 speeds have about a 2.73 ratio from memory? what did you change it to?


3.46 (i.e. the stock ratio from the 6 speed manuals) I initially got a cheap second hand gear set. After smashing those, now have a brand new set.

 

_________________

1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:57 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 31

Posts: 771

Joined: 20th Nov 2005

Ride: AU XR8 220 Manual

wow! thats a huge change, 1st and 2nd must be short as hell now!

would make 6th more usable too, did you fins an improvement in economy? I know this is common for most ratio changes around town unless you do alot of highway. will have to consider that, didnt realise it could be done.
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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:05 pm 
ACT Cruise Moderator
Offline
User avatar

Age: 36

Posts: 6275

Joined: 24th Nov 2004

Ride: '06 BF GT-P

Power: 293 rwkw

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

TUF250 wrote:
wow! thats a huge change, 1st and 2nd must be short as hell now!

would make 6th more usable too, did you fins an improvement in economy? I know this is common for most ratio changes around town unless you do alot of highway. will have to consider that, didnt realise it could be done.


Highway got worse, around town about the same.


It can be done, it's kinda expensive though, as there's a lot of labour in getting the diff out and back in + doing the ratio change. Use the opportunity to replace the bushes (save on labour).

 

_________________

1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow - 97.5rwkw
2006 BF GT-P in Ego, mods. 293rwkw - 12.427@109 - 0-1000m 24.838@221

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 Post subject: Re: BOSS oil pump gears/oil seperators?
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:05 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 28

Posts: 540

Joined: 9th Aug 2007

Ride: FG Ute, ED XR8 Sprint, GPZ900R

Location: Leopold, Geelong
VIC, Australia

I've drove both 6 speed auto and 6 speed manual and ended up buying the manual. The auto was probably a better box, smooth gear changes and would be consistently faster then the manual which some people fins a little agricultural but hey I just love a manual :) Comes down to personal preference really, both are fine choices. Diff gears best bang for buck mod FTW :)

 

_________________

The Past: EF Fairmont, EL Fairmont 5.0, HR Special, NF Fairlane 5.0, GSX 250-F, BA II XR8, VS3 Ute, VS2 L67 Calais

The Present: FG Egas Ute, ED XR8 Sprint, GPZ 900R

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