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cold engine hard to start 

 

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 Post subject: cold engine hard to start
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:58 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Hi ive seen a couple of other forums about cold starting being hard, but one i remember was quite modded and mine is stock.

basically when its cold it doesnt start well, once its started the first time it goes fine just the first start in the morning it struggles with. Have new battery, new spark plugs, ahve tested the leads and they seem fine, ive taken it to ford for a diagnostics test, reported no codes at all.

I have a manual that has a few suggestions
Cold system faulty - test MAF
Fuel pump not operating - check fuse and relay
coolant temp sensor faulty - test sensor
fuel pressure incorrect - test fuel pressure
MAP sensor wrong - test MAP sensor
Fuel injectors faulty or clogged - test injectors

Now my guess is that the diagnostic check would have ruled out the sensor problems, is this right? My cooling system has a layer of brown in the tank - think it wasnt run with inhibitor by prev owner? Needle seems to move up and down on the gauge a bit Top M to top of L pretty quickly, not sure if this is normal so im thinking it could be this, any theories?

Would the diagnostics test have reported a code had the fuel pressure been down?

Ive started running it on premium and its seems to be improving, could this suggest injectors?

Im thinking next move is to get the injectors cleaned, if that doesnt help to do the coolant temp sensor, this seem logical?

Any help much appreciated
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:16 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Could be the injectors, fuel filter, ISC etc etc.

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:27 pm 
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Thats a big possiblity that, how many ks has it done? if there around 200,000kms it very well could be.

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:52 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Even though I've only got a dirty old I6 :wink: My car will NEVER start 1st go on a cold morning. Always goes the second time around though...
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:31 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
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just gone 153000 Km so fairly low for an EF. seems to be a bit thirsty though, so has prob gone thru a fair bit of fuel. Since ive been running it on premium it is getting easier to start still struggles a bit though
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 Post subject: Re: cold engine hard to start
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:42 am 
EFI Guru
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Could be as simple as a blocked fuel filter or your pump could be dying.
Diagnostics won't/can't report on fuel pressure. Stick a gauge on the schrader valve on the rail to test the fuel pressure...your book should explain how to do this and also check the flow rate.
Something to try now though is when cold, try turning the key on to start but don't crank, listen for the pump to run and stop. Do this several times before you attempt to crank and then crank and see if starts any easier. If it starts first go when you've done this it's likely the pump is buggered.
If it's still the same it could be your injectors or filter. Change the filter anyway and run a couple of cans of injector cleaner through it and see where you are then. A faulty MAF is usually picked up by diagnostics but you can check the signal when idling by backprobing the MAF connector...once again your manual should explain the typical voltages but idle should be in the 0.8-1volt range. You can check this during crank too, obviously the voltage will be lower and not so steady.
You don't have a MAP sensor so no problem there.

Pete.
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:46 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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one of the threads on cold start trouble was probably mine. like you say, bit hard to relate to as mine is not running factory ecu. as it turned out mine was a tuning issue and is fine now.

yours could be a few things, most of which have been mentioned. with the injectors you could have a leaky one. when it eventually fires up does it give a cloud of smoke or sooty residue out the exhaust? i replaced the fuel pump relay in mine as well just in case. grabbed a 2nd handy from a wrecker for $5 bucks. can cause low pressure.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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You say that it starts easier on premium than it has been on reg but still struggles.

I'd say it'd be fuel related where there isnt enough fuel getting through. I had a similar problem on my old vr and it turned out to be a few dirty injectors. Could also be the fuel filter like the others have said.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:43 pm 
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if it starts easier on premium doesn't mean its not getting enough petrol as premium flows just as much as regular 91 octane.

As mentioned above, check all those. Also, chuck a timing light on it, and check to see what its running.


Cheers

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:23 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

thanks heaps all of you, im leaning towards injectors. Yesterday I cleaned the water temperature sensor and installed a new fuel filter. Went first time straight away this morning but it was latish in the day so not terribly cold. Fuel pump definitely works - how well im not too sure - makes a noise. Main plan at the moment is to try it out over a few mornings to see if it starts better.

What i was thinking was that the premium being a better fuel, it may be partially cleaning the injectors, making it go a bit better if that was the problem.

Basically thanks to you all, i rekon i can narrow the problem now down to either injectors or fuel pressure - dont have the toys to check these so if the new filter and cleaned water temp sensor havent fixed the problem will get injectors cleaned properly and get them to test fuel pressure at the same time. fingers crossed it goes alright in the mornings now!

will post a reply once ive tried it out over a few mornings
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:34 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

oh yeah, and they checked timing and reset ecu when i got the diagnostics done as well, so I think thats right.
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:27 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Wouldnt start yesterday at all - fairly cold and wet morning -seems to be a bit worse on wet mornings, got going a bit later in the day when sun came out and with a bit of pumping of the accelerator while cranking the engine. Its getting the injectors cleaned tomorrow and fuel pressure checked as well, so will see how that goes.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:20 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Got injectors and fuel lines cleaned at ford today, seems to run a lot better. They also checked fuel pressure which was normal. I had left it there overnight and they tried starting it in the morning. They found that the coil pack is weak and thats why it struggels to start - their new one being 457 bucks! I called up bursons who quoted me about 45 bucks for one! called ford back up to make sure we were talking about the same part and yes, we were! Whats going on there! I could go through 10 Bursons ones before it cost as much as a ford one - very strange. Believe it or not, but im going to get the one from bursons.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:48 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: 07 BF mk2 E-gas wagon + eb 5.0

Power: 174 rwkw

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good to hear your on top of your situation also. nothing worse than a problem that drags on and has you pulling your hair out before you finally nail the reason why. might try a new coil on mine or mention it to the tuner and see what he thinks.

 

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eb v8: low loud and fast. just how a v8 should be. i guess the big question is, is it fast enough...

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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:41 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 34

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Joined: 23rd Feb 2006

Ride: EF II Futura 5.0

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

yeah thanks mate, cars parked outside tonight to try it out tomorrow morning. fingers crossed. I figure they have all been things that should be done when you get a new car anyway - seeing as i dont know whats been done to it by previous owners etc, was probably due for a fair few new parts and a good clean out, at least now i know its been done!
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