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Do you need an engineers report for........ 

 

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 Post subject: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:47 am 
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Hi guys just wondering if people know if I would need an engineers in Victoria to put an AU 5 litre into a 76 ZH Fairlane? As you all know ZH's came out with a 351 cleavland as the biggest motor and considering the AU 5 litre is still a 302 windsor with injection so I'm hoping I can just put it in without engineering... I dont want a race car just a reliable cruiser that is cheap on fuel but still has a V8 sound. :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:35 am 
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Thumpdaddy wrote:
Hi guys just wondering if people know if I would need an engineers in Victoria to put an AU 5 litre into a 76 ZH Fairlane? As you all know ZH's came out with a 351 cleavland as the biggest motor and considering the AU 5 litre is still a 302 windsor with injection so I'm hoping I can just put it in without engineering... I dont want a race car just a reliable cruiser that is cheap on fuel but still has a V8 sound. :D


I could be 100% wrong here, but i thought any engine that the model car wasnt realesed with requires engineering?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:05 pm 
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i dont think you would need to. As long as the car came out with a 5.0 (aka 4.9) or 5.8 then you can put in a newer model engine 5.0 or 5.8.

You can always put a newer engine into an older car but not vice versa.

We had a XE 4.1 1984 engine into XB 1973 model car.

Also If the ZH came out with a 5L or 5.8L Windsor then it should be a fairly straight forward upgrade.

Dont forget you will need to take a purchase receipt of the engine to Vic Roads along with the car so they can verify it & change your engine number over on the rego papers/label.
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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:29 pm 
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The EFI Windsor wasnt a factory option for that vehicle so to the letter of the law it requires engineering.
You may manage to slip it through just and engine number change.
People have in the past , but to be 100% legit it needs to be engineered.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:38 pm 
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EVL098 wrote:
The EFI Windsor wasnt a factory option for that vehicle so to the letter of the law it requires engineering.
You may manage to slip it through just and engine number change.
People have in the past , but to be 100% legit it needs to be engineered.

yeh i wasnt too sure if the ZH came out with Windsor's or not.
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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Not sure about Vic, but as far as I know here in S.A. (And W.A. from memory) if you upgrade a cars engine to one from a later model (as you are proposing) you need to also upgrade the brakes etc to the donor vehicles equivalent (in regards to stopping ability of the car vs power output) in order for it to be classed as roadworthy. And if the upgrades for both engine and brakes involves ANY structural modifications you need an engineers report on those mods.
Would probably be best to have a look on the VicRoads website for info, or ask the question next time you get a roadworthy done.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Should be an easy transplant for Vic orads to approve....as long as all the emission requirements/components for the donor engine are fitted, ie: CAT's, EGR, EFI, and the like.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:37 pm 
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You shouldn't need to engineer a smaller lighter engine of the same or smaller capacity than what it originally had. In saying that they are Morons so they'll probably make you do whatever costs more!?
You could also buy a TFS cleveland EFI intake and wack the 5.0 management on it and your laughing.
Either way I wouldn't tell em jack s**t about what you're doing.
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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:55 pm 
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The problem is its not regoed at the moment its a ground up rebuild from scratch so the first rego and roadworthy would be with the new engine in it... So just changing the engine number isnt an option...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Thumpdaddy wrote:
The problem is its not regoed at the moment its a ground up rebuild from scratch so the first rego and roadworthy would be with the new engine in it... So just changing the engine number isnt an option...

If the ZH came out with Windsor from factory (even if they were optional) then you won't need to get an engineers report/approval.

If the ZH didn't come out with the Windsor engine then "technically" you would need to.

Now given that the people at VicRoads etc can't tell the difference between a Windsor or Cleveland then you will more than likely get away with it. It's not a huge deal.

As far as pollution goes etc, the car is a 76 model given that you will still need to comply with 1976 emissions rules. That means the black box with the 3 hoses (from memory). I think the XC's & the ZH's were the first cars to have to go by an emission standard as this is when it was introduced & made legally necessary. I wouldn't worry about the emissions side of things, given that your engine is out of a 2000ish model car it will pass 1976 rules easily.

You need to tell VicRoads that a new/replacement engine has been fitted to the car - The reason being is that if you get pulled over & a cop decides to check the engine number to the rego sticker & it's different then you will start having to explain yourself & they could look at it as a stolen engine which will mean you will then have to go to VicRoads & show them proof of purchase of the engine anyways. All you are doing is delaying it if you ever get sussed out by the authorities.
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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Shen Long wrote:
Thumpdaddy wrote:
The problem is its not regoed at the moment its a ground up rebuild from scratch so the first rego and roadworthy would be with the new engine in it... So just changing the engine number isnt an option...

If the ZH came out with Windsor from factory (even if they were optional) then you won't need to get an engineers report/approval.

If the ZH didn't come out with the Windsor engine then "technically" you would need to.

Now given that the people at VicRoads etc can't tell the difference between a Windsor or Cleveland then you will more than likely get away with it. It's not a huge deal.

As far as pollution goes etc, the car is a 76 model given that you will still need to comply with 1976 emissions rules. That means the black box with the 3 hoses (from memory). I think the XC's & the ZH's were the first cars to have to go by an emission standard as this is when it was introduced & made legally necessary. I wouldn't worry about the emissions side of things, given that your engine is out of a 2000ish model car it will pass 1976 rules easily.

You need to tell VicRoads that a new/replacement engine has been fitted to the car - The reason being is that if you get pulled over & a cop decides to check the engine number to the rego sticker & it's different then you will start having to explain yourself & they could look at it as a stolen engine which will mean you will then have to go to VicRoads & show them proof of purchase of the engine anyways. All you are doing is delaying it if you ever get sussed out by the authorities.


Incorrect info.

If he is using a motor out of a 2000 model XR8 as an example he has to comply to 2000 emissions rules not 1976.
When you change a motor in a car the motor has to either
1. Meet the vehicles emission standards if the vehicle is newer then the motor.
2. Meet the motors emission standards if the motor is newer then the vehicle.

There was no Windsor available in a ZH.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:31 pm 
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EVL098 wrote:
Incorrect info.

If he is using a motor out of a 2000 model XR8 as an example he has to comply to 2000 emissions rules not 1976.
When you change a motor in a car the motor has to either
1. Meet the vehicles emission standards if the vehicle is newer then the motor.
2. Meet the motors emission standards if the motor is newer then the vehicle.

There was no Windsor available in a ZH.

I stand corrected then. :oops: :oops: :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Btw they don't care about the type of engine it is. If it's a 302C or a 302W they only care about the year and therefore the emissions standard of that year.
My advice is rego it with the original engine then do whatever afterwards.
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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:59 pm 
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OK thanks for the info guys

I was talking to a friend today and he said he looked into the rules because he is putting a new injected 5.0 litre into a WB ute and this guy is a truckie so one day when he got pulled over by Vicroads in his truck he asked the question and the Vicroads guys had to look it up in their books and they said it is fine to put a new engine in an older car as long as the car originally came out with that size motor standard and the new motor doesnt boost the power by more than 15%.... The new 5ltr is going in his WB today as I speak :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: Do you need an engineers report for........
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:10 pm 
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pretty sure motor reg just go of cc no efi and all that
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