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EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help 

 

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 Post subject: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:25 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I just pulled the fault codes from my EEC IV. I am concerned about code 73. Apparently this means a TPS issue (not in dynamic range)
I checked the voltage @ the TPS and it read 0.95volts closed and 4.65volts @ wot. As far as I know this is acceptable.

So does this mean I have a fault in the reference wire back to the ECU or say a plug or something?

With this fault the timing retards itself @ around 4000rpm back to 18deg. So no power.


Have you had this issue? Where did you find the fault?

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:49 pm 
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I think 73 is just for the throttle goose test on the dynamic response test(KOER). ie; if you don't goose the throttle when instructed by the tester it logs a fault. If you have a basic tester you won't know when to do this because, quite simply, it won't tell you to do it.
You've tested the TPS and it's fine...no worries.
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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:02 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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XR9UTE wrote:
I think 73 is just for the throttle goose test on the dynamic response test(KOER). ie; if you don't goose the throttle when instructed by the tester it logs a fault. If you have a basic tester you won't know when to do this because, quite simply, it won't tell you to do it.
You've tested the TPS and it's fine...no worries.


So can you shed any light on why the ECU retards the timing around 4000rpm.
When I did a static timing test the advance was @ 38deg by 3200rpm and by 4000 it was back to 18deg.
On the dyno it stopped making power @ 3500rpm = 130 rwkw.
Is there any other source that would play with the timing, TFI maybe?

The other fault codes I pulled are 46, 77. 34 & 67
I will do a KOER test when I get my J3 back. See what I get.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:04 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Are the codes being read correctly? Code 46 & 77 are US EEC4 codes, not Aussie EEC4.

But is sounds like you have wiring/component failure issues and serious enough to invoke limp home mode which drops a bunch of timing at higher throttle angles & RPM.

Fix the wiring and/or components to eliminate all codes.

Also, list the box code of your ecu. The early Aussie EEC4 V8 ecus respond differently to code 67 NDS circuit failure.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:49 pm 
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xafalcon wrote:
Are the codes being read correctly? Code 46 & 77 are US EEC4 codes, not Aussie EEC4.

But is sounds like you have wiring/component failure issues and serious enough to invoke limp home mode which drops a bunch of timing at higher throttle angles & RPM.

Fix the wiring and/or components to eliminate all codes.

Also, list the box code of your ecu. The early Aussie EEC4 V8 ecus respond differently to code 67 NDS circuit failure.

Do you have a list of Aus codes. I have looked around with no joy as to being listed as Aus codes.

If it was going into limp home mode surely it would not still rev to 6500rpm.
I belive I am reading to flashing of the led correctly.
I now think it could be an auto trans to manual conversion thing.
The J3 has a EB GT manual tune. I think I will still need to signal the ECU so it thinks it is in neutral.
So many people have differant ideas of what the issue could be.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:42 pm 
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I've got the aussie list. Only 34(EVP volts above closed limit) and 67(NDS open circ/A/C input high) are listed.
People will always have different ideas about the cause especially when you leave stuff out of your description.
18 degrees timing @ full load may be normal under the circumstances...if you hit the TPS WOT breakpoint, even without actual load(ie on a dyno or road) the EEC will assume high load and it may be a combo of that and the fact that the reverse gear torque truncation has taken effect.
Still 130kw is ok for a stocky...
Do the self test without the chip in there first.
What's the catch code?
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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:03 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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XR9UTE wrote:
I've got the aussie list. Only 34(EVP volts above closed limit) and 67(NDS open circ/A/C input high) are listed.
People will always have different ideas about the cause especially when you leave stuff out of your description.
18 degrees timing @ full load may be normal under the circumstances...if you hit the TPS WOT breakpoint, even without actual load(ie on a dyno or road) the EEC will assume high load and it may be a combo of that and the fact that the reverse gear torque truncation has taken effect.
Still 130kw is ok for a stocky...
Do the self test without the chip in there first.
What's the catch code?


The catch code is 1DEB p/n 91DA-12A650-EB ECU code 70 no smart lock

I found a EB manual that had a list of fault codes. Same answer as you.
The timing was done on the dyno. It stopped making power @ 3200rpm made 130rwkw.
I am not happy with the number engine is a heavily worked 289 with EB hardware.
I was expecting 180-200 rwkw.
I think it will be the torque trunction you mentioned. The ECU has a J3 chip with a EB GT base file.
Thing is, does the ECU still need to see 0 volts in park & neutral and 5 volts in gear. If so how do I do that when I am using a C4 auto (no box computer)

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:20 am 
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1DEB has different data locations to a 2DDA so I'm curious as to how you can use that cal in that EEC? Or has it had some GT type programming transferred into the 1DEB cal?
You shouldn't see that much of a performance drop from torque truncation. I never seen it happen in many many conversions(quite a few with C4's and one with an actual 1DEB in an XD). I even converted my ED recently to manual and saw no noticeable difference between manual and auto EEC's.
If you want to program for it set the parameter TRLOAD to manual trans(like a 2DCA which is a manual GT/Sprint) but, I don't think it's your actual problem.
What is the actual total engine combo and EFI package? What MAF/injectors fuel pump? don't leave anything out.
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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:01 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Multiple issues. As Pete says, your binary doesn't match your ecu. Sometimes this causes problems, but not always. I always keep the binary in the same family as the ecu to avoid any issues with this.

LHM won't stop it revving to 6500rpm in neutral as LOAD is very low. But it will seriously hold you back when load increases.

If your coolant or air temp was really really high (113°C) then 18° at WOT is possible, but highly unlikely. Much more likely its LHM.

What MAF sensor/housing? The sprint/GT ecu uses a unique transfer function. Get this mis-matched and anythings possible.

Running a manual binary on an auto ecu can cause problems as the early ecu's did not have the internal circuitry to support this. A manual ecu links NDS to SIG RET, not to earth.

A minor contributor is engine displacement

What injectors?

Fix the fault codes before anything else.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:11 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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xafalcon wrote:
Multiple issues. As Pete says, your binary doesn't match your ecu. Sometimes this causes problems, but not always. I always keep the binary in the same family as the ecu to avoid any issues with this.

LHM won't stop it revving to 6500rpm in neutral as LOAD is very low. But it will seriously hold you back when load increases.

If your coolant or air temp was really really high (113°C) then 18° at WOT is possible, but highly unlikely. Much more likely its LHM.

What MAF sensor/housing? The sprint/GT ecu uses a unique transfer function. Get this mis-matched and anythings possible.

Running a manual binary on an auto ecu can cause problems as the early ecu's did not have the internal circuitry to support this. A manual ecu links NDS to SIG RET, not to earth.

A minor contributor is engine displacement

What injectors?

Fix the fault codes before anything else.

OK. Got my J3 back.
Cleared the codes, ran it around the block a few times. Pulled the codes.
KOEO got 34 & 96
KOER got 21 & 34
I checked the voltage @ the ECT and read 0.03 volts cold. I believe it shold be 3.1 volt @ 20 deg.
Will get a new ECT and do the test again. This may solve the problems

With the new tune it ran way better. I did set the TPS voltage to 0.98 volts @ closed TB. And 4.65 @ WOT.

The J3 was done by T.I. Performance. The binary is a 2DCA with the injector firing order changed to suit my 289 Windsor. Than MAF is a 75mm from a Mustang with my electronics. The manifolds are ported HO with a phelonic spacer. Heads are 302 4V with 2.02" in & 1.60" exh cam is a Crow Lobe Separation 110 Valve Lift
Inlet Opens 31 B.T.D.C.
Inlet Closes 69 A.B.D.C. 0.518 " lift
Exhaust Opens 71 B.B.D.C.
Exhaust Closes 29 A.T.D.C. 0.518 " lift

Inlet Duration 230 at 0.050 280 Advertised
Exhaust Duration 230 at 0.050 280 Advertised

Injectors are standard 5.0L fuel pump is a Bosch 040

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:06 pm 
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are you using a factory wiring harness?
Ive seen a similar problem when the TFI module is incorrectly wired, ie 12v present on the start wire (pin3 of tfi)
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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Code 34 & 96 = Wiring and/or hardware issues. Code 21 = ECT, could be more wiring issues or a faulty sensor.

What transfer function data was used for that bastard MAF? If the transfer function isn't right (and only blind luck would cause it to happen), the engine won't run right in open loop. And what injectors are you running - standard orange E-series or standard blue Cobra? The 2DCA is expecting the latter. If you run the orange = more problems.

I never set the TPS so close to 1 volt. With cheap chinese multimeters that 0.98 volts could easily be over 1 volt and the engine then thinks your foot is on the gas pedal. I set TPS at 0.90 volts as a safety measure against inaccurate multimeters. I do not notice any drivability issues by doing this. Others may disagree with my approach, but it has worked on all my SBF EFI cars

230 @ 050 intake on 110 LSA in an injected 289 is a big ask. The HO manifold will help tame it down

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:27 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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66 coupe wrote:
are you using a factory wiring harness?
Ive seen a similar problem when the TFI module is incorrectly wired, ie 12v present on the start wire (pin3 of tfi)

I am using the factory harness. I stripped the harness of all the unnecessary wiring and moved all the relays etc to inside the car. The EEC harness is stand alone to the rest of the car. All the parts came from the same car. I was very careful and labeled all the wires before I stripped it down.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:47 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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xafalcon wrote:
Code 34 & 96 = Wiring and/or hardware issues. Code 21 = ECT, could be more wiring issues or a faulty sensor.

What transfer function data was used for that bastard MAF? If the transfer function isn't right (and only blind luck would cause it to happen), the engine won't run right in open loop. And what injectors are you running - standard orange E-series or standard blue Cobra? The 2DCA is expecting the latter. If you run the orange = more problems.

I never set the TPS so close to 1 volt. With cheap chinese multimeters that 0.98 volts could easily be over 1 volt and the engine then thinks your foot is on the gas pedal. I set TPS at 0.90 volts as a safety measure against inaccurate multimeters. I do not notice any drivability issues by doing this. Others may disagree with my approach, but it has worked on all my SBF EFI cars

230 @ 050 intake on 110 LSA in an injected 289 is a big ask. The HO manifold will help tame it down

I gave every detail of my combo the the tuner. He has been doing it a long time and is well known here in Aus. The HO manifolds do tame it down. Engine doesn't have the top end power it had when it was carby fed.
I will need to work out why the fuel pump code has been thrown up. For some reason the EEC must be getting some volts with engine running when it should be 0 volts. I am using a standard 4 pin relay, with a diode. That could be the problem. I will replace the ECT and see what happens. As for the EVR code, will look at that one latter. May just need a new EGR or EVR solenoid.
Considering the age of all the stuff a few code should not be to hard to sort out.
I will put it on the dyno again next week. Hoping for more than 130rwkw @ 3200rpm.
Would like to see 180-200 rwkw

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB 5.0L fault code 73 EEC IV help
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:36 am 
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Best ask Jason what MAF transfer function he used, so you can get a correctly matching MAF. This is the single most important aspect in tuning a mass air system

It doesn't have the top end power of the carb version due to the restrictor plate (aka HO lower intake) you are running. I would not expect you to see more than 160rwkw using that, probably less.

 

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