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EL Fairmont Ghia wont start 

 

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 Post subject: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:22 pm 
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Hey guys,

I just bought a 97 EL Fairmont Ghia with the V8 (according to ford from the VIN check its the 185kw 8).

I've been driving it around all day. I come home, park it.. All good. 2 hours later, I go out to get some smokes and it wont start. Makes the ignition turn over sound, but no start.

But heres the wierd (well wierd to me anyway) It started twice.. Rev'd it, then after about 5 seconds of idle it just dies then back to not starting.

I called the RAC guy. He came along, pumped the thottle, and it started.. reved, then 5 seconds, dead. Checked battery, all good, checked fuses - all good. Got his mallet out and hit what I assumed was the tank.. no joy. Checked fuses in engine bay...all good.

He sprays CRC or something like that into the "c" tube hanging off the side on the inlet - no joy.

So he reaches deep into the back bowels of the engine, tells me to turn it over.. nothing happens of course.

He says "You've got no spark".

He suggested it might be the coil. I had a similar thing on my NL i6 but it wouldnt turn over at all. So I am not sure.

Any thoughts.. suggestions.. reflections?

Regards,

Woody
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:38 pm 
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Gday mate

How many kms does it have? And has it been serviced regulary?

Could it be your fuel pump? As in not supplying enough pressure? Or maybe dirty fuel injectors? Or blocked/ buggered fuel filter . . .

Check your coil as the rac dude said with a volt metre, also check the points on your dizzy cap and maybe give them a little clean with a fine grit sand paper - if they look stuffed the caps are only about $30 from repco.

Start there mate - can't think of much else atm - I've had a s**t load of trouble with my ef fairmont 5ltr of late as well so if I think of anything else ill jump on a throw up another post.

Oh and have u got fuel? Lol stupid question but its been known to happen due to either not realising or buggered fuel gauge. I realise the fairmont will beep at you when your low but perhaps there's a sensor somewhere that's stuffed? Just a thought . . .
Cheers
Grant
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:27 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Coil to dizzy cap lead OK? Try a spare plug lead there and see what happens.

Possibly the TFI module on the side of the dizzy. Get a 6 cylinder one from Motor Traders, Repco etc. (NOT Ford spare parts) as they are about $70-80, half the price of the V8 one... :roll:

Coil maybe, but they are ten times as reliable as the TFI modules. My aftermarket coil was about $50 IIRC.

Also try a known good ECU if that doesn't work. Mine died a while back, but the car did have spark, fuel however, it just wasn't firing the injectors which doesn't seem to be the problem with yours.

Mike

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:28 am 
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Well if the bloke says no spark and that's true then I am also thinking the TFI module may be intermittent. The original heatsink compound usually dries out and over time so the heat buildup can cook them after a while.

Dodgy plug connections can cause issues, could also be the ECU / BEM or even dry joints on the PCB's.

i6_demon wrote:
Could it be your fuel pump?

I'm guessing that's why the bloke smacked the fuel pump on the fuel tank - to see if the pump reacted.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:57 am 
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Also throw up a picture of your engine, I'm pretty sure fairmonts never came out with 185 windsors from factory.

Agree with previous comments.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:16 pm 
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i6_demon wrote:
Gday mate

How many kms does it have? And has it been serviced regulary?

Could it be your fuel pump? As in not supplying enough pressure? Or maybe dirty fuel injectors? Or blocked/ buggered fuel filter . . .

Check your coil as the rac dude said with a volt metre, also check the points on your dizzy cap and maybe give them a little clean with a fine grit sand paper - if they look stuffed the caps are only about $30 from repco.

Start there mate - can't think of much else atm - I've had a s**t load of trouble with my ef fairmont 5ltr of late as well so if I think of anything else ill jump on a throw up another post.

Oh and have u got fuel? Lol stupid question but its been known to happen due to either not realising or buggered fuel gauge. I realise the fairmont will beep at you when your low but perhaps there's a sensor somewhere that's stuffed? Just a thought . . .
Cheers
Grant



Thanks mate.

I took the distro cap off, and yeah, points not so much warn, but white.. the dizzy tip was black from what I assume is carbonisation.

I didnt have any sand paper, so pinched the misses nail file (yeah, she was impressed). Gave all the points a going over, and the dizzy as well. Put it all back together and and "WOOF" the car started! Theres is an intermittant miss when idling, so I think I should replace it sooner rather than later.

But when it started, I was punching the air! But I will probably replace the coil, dizzy and TFI to be on the safe side.

Any suggestions on high quality ones? I was told to get a really good coil and MSD leads.. .saying more spark equals more power/Econmy. Any truth to this?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:49 pm 
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rwoodhams wrote:
Thanks mate.

I took the distro cap off, and yeah, points not so much warn, but white.. the dizzy tip was black from what I assume is carbonisation.

I didnt have any sand paper, so pinched the misses nail file (yeah, she was impressed). Gave all the points a going over, and the dizzy as well. Put it all back together and and "WOOF" the car started! Theres is an intermittant miss when idling, so I think I should replace it sooner rather than later.

But when it started, I was punching the air! But I will probably replace the coil, dizzy and TFI to be on the safe side.

Any suggestions on high quality ones? I was told to get a really good coil and MSD leads.. .saying more spark equals more power/Econmy. Any truth to this?


No worries bud - glad I could help - bout time I started giving back to FM for all the help Ive needed and asked for :lol:

Yeah it is true to some extent - but youve gotta weigh up wether its worth it IMO. For standard lead replacements I paid $90 and for standard replacement plugs was $45. Whereas for the good leads and plugs respectivly would have cost me $150 and $75.

Cheers
Grant

Last edited by i6_demon on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:49 pm 
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thepistonhead wrote:
Also throw up a picture of your engine, I'm pretty sure fairmonts never came out with 185 windsors from factory.

Agree with previous comments.


Here you go dude.

It has the tickford badge and the 5litre badge on the the side, next to the Ghia badge.

I suspected it (it looked dodgy), so called ford on 13FORD, gave them the VIN. They told me.:

Built Jan 1997, sold June 1997.
Options:
Oil Cooler
Tickford Bodykit

They told me it was V8 (which I knew obviously). I asked him how much. He said he had to look in another screen, so after a few seconds he tells me its the output rating is 185kw.

Its actually pretty lumpy down low, at initial acceleration, but very smooth from about 1000 upwards. Rev's really freely and has plenty of poke...The lumpy low end I'm not sure if that is how those engines were. has 238,000 km on the clock.

Anyway, attached a couple of pics.

 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Sorry to inform you, but that is an HO manifold, and as such is probably a 175kw 5.0. The 185 had the explorer inlet and EL GT extractors.
Nice ride though. The little windsor should be good for anoth 150000k's with regular servicing and maintenance.

Cheers
Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:15 pm 
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TerroristGHIA wrote:
Sorry to inform you, but that is an HO manifold, and as such is probably a 175kw 5.0. The 185 had the explorer inlet and EL GT extractors.
Nice ride though. The little windsor should be good for anoth 150000k's with regular servicing and maintenance.

Cheers
Brett

the HO manifold was only used in 165kw base model/fairmont/fairlane only XR8's got the 170kw, and 185kw

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:45 pm 
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i6_demon wrote:
rwoodhams wrote:
Thanks mate.

I took the distro cap off, and yeah, points not so much warn, but white.. the dizzy tip was black from what I assume is carbonisation.

I didnt have any sand paper, so pinched the misses nail file (yeah, she was impressed). Gave all the points a going over, and the dizzy as well. Put it all back together and and "WOOF" the car started! Theres is an intermittant miss when idling, so I think I should replace it sooner rather than later.

But when it started, I was punching the air! But I will probably replace the coil, dizzy and TFI to be on the safe side.

Any suggestions on high quality ones? I was told to get a really good coil and MSD leads.. .saying more spark equals more power/Econmy. Any truth to this?


No worries bud - glad I could help - bout time I started giving back to FM for all the help Ive needed and asked for :lol:

Yeah it is true to some extent - but youve gotta weigh up wether its worth it IMO. For standard lead replacements I paid $90 and for standard replacement plugs was $45. Whereas for the good leads and plugs respectivly would have cost me $150 and $75.

Cheers
Grant


I spoke to a few guys, and they suggested it was much-a-do about nothing.

At anycase I've booked her in for a new coil, dizzy, TFI plugs, alternator, battery and leads. Given my luck recenly with a VS Ute, I've also booked her in to replace the radiator and hoses.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:20 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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rwoodhams wrote:
thepistonhead wrote:
Also throw up a picture of your engine, I'm pretty sure fairmonts never came out with 185 windsors from factory.

Agree with previous comments.


Here you go dude.

It has the tickford badge and the 5litre badge on the the side, next to the Ghia badge.

I suspected it (it looked dodgy), so called ford on 13FORD, gave them the VIN. They told me.:

Built Jan 1997, sold June 1997.
Options:
Oil Cooler
Tickford Bodykit



Sorry to say they were incorrect. Probably they just looked at the engine lists for 1997 and mentioned the highest one, as it probably doesn't say on the machine the specification of the engine - just 5.0L V8.

This is what a 185KW windsor looks like - notice the sharp edges compared to your smooth curves (also in a fairmont, but not factory!)

Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Good news mate. The contacts inside the dizzy cap must have been filthy, but I'd say it was the centre contact that was the culprit after you said the car had NO spark!

The Windsors have always been crappy idlers, but like you say above 1000rpm (and below 4000 :lol: ) they are a smooth, torquey little bugger.

You say that someone else is going to replace the coil, dizzy, TFI, plugs, alternator, battery and leads? The plugs, leads, battery and coil are VERY simple things to do at home, save yourself some money and do it yourself. Be prepared for a BIG shock on the alternator and dizzy price. My alt was $600 fitted. I would normally do it myself, but the main positive lead from it was shot and needed replacement too (get yours checked out- they fry regularly). Radiator about $300 for a good COPPER one, NOT aluminium. Rad hoses pretty pricey to for the V8s.

Just so 'ya know... :wink:

Mike

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:14 pm 
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V8 Ghia Mike wrote:

You say that someone else is going to replace the coil, dizzy, TFI, plugs, alternator, battery and leads? The plugs, leads, battery and coil are VERY simple things to do at home, save yourself some money and do it yourself. Be prepared for a BIG shock on the alternator and dizzy price. My alt was $600 fitted. I would normally do it myself, but the main positive lead from it was shot and needed replacement too (get yours checked out- they fry regularly). Radiator about $300 for a good COPPER one, NOT aluminium. Rad hoses pretty pricey to for the V8s.

Just so 'ya know... :wink:

Mike


Yeah I agree - do it yourself mate will save a heap of cash 8-)

Cheers
Grant
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Ghia wont start
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Actually the 165 and 170 are one and the same engine...a stock HO. It was only the exhaust that supposedly gave an extra 5 kw on the 170 engine.... I suspect it's more likely they pick up 5 kw from the fact that all EF-up 5.0's have electric fans.
btw I think there's not enough badges on that guard rwoodhams. :D
You'll probably find that once you've given it plugs and new ignition components the lumpiness at idle will go...they are supposed to be dead smooth. Btw if they are topgun/federal mongrel leads chuck em away and get some proper leads like Eagle,Magnecore,ICE(if you're loaded)or Ford racing.
Nice car!
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