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EL II XR8 - Supercharge ? 

 

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 Post subject: EL II XR8 - Supercharge ?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:39 pm 
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Hi all,
I'm after some advice/pointers and what to look out for if I wanted to supercharge my ELXR8.
It's the series 2 with the stock 185kw windsor in it and is an auto, motor done 138km.
Are their different types of supercharges?
Do i need to do other stuff to accomadate the supercharger like strengthen diff/ trans etc?
What would the approx cost be for a full set up?
I'd wont the car to be at least 250kw at the motor.

thanks.

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:44 pm 
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you will probably need forged pistons, different cam and a after market ECU. the most common super charger for late model engines is the centfigural (?) type www.capa.com.au has a kit for your car which will include every thing you need cost is about $6000+ from memory.

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:53 pm 
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Crash course in superchargers...

2 main types

Positive displacement - these are the things you see on top fuel dragsters, max max cars etc and actually compress the air as it's going into the manifold... in effect, they become part of the manifold. Not very common on street cars. Having said this, it is possible on a ford V8 as they are popular on mustangs in the states. Big $$$ i reckon as it would be a custom setup on an aussie falcon.

Centrifugal - Basically half a turbo but with a pulley turning the compressor instead of exhaust gas driven turbine. Popular brands are powerdyne, vortech and paxton. Powerdyne and vortech supplied by CAPA in Australia.

If you want 250kw - fork out $6000 for a powerdyne kit fom CAPA and fit it yourself. End of story. No need to change internals.

Check out my gallery for pics of the powerdyne setup and a few pics of the install process.

Also look at a vortech kit from CAPA - more power than a powerdyne as run run higher RPM within the blower itself (powerdyne has a belt inside of it, vortech has a a***). About $8000 as it comes with injectors and an extra fuel pump. You'll need to run an oil line (like a turbo setup) for a vortech due to the gear drive.

If your engine is stock, CAPA can provide a chip suited to the engine but be sure to tell them its the 185kw version (chip is included in the price).

But dont worry about changing pistons etc unless you want to start chasing 300kw+ at the flywheel or start chaing more than 10psi of boost. Valvetrain will take a beating so long as you dont rev the motor excessively (no need to with forced induction).

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:04 pm 
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As 4.9 EF Futura there are two main complete packages available for your car, the Powerdyne and the Vortech from CAPA. Powerdyne should give you 240-250kw at the engine, is fairly easy to install yourself and is well priced. The Vortechs are more expensive and have a few more installation hurdles but have the potential for a lot more power and are a lot stronger. I would always recommend saving up a bit extra and going for the Vortech but the powerdynes are OK for general street use.

Engine internals should be fine with a decent tune, CAPA supply a chip which will suit a standard engine quite well. If you want to do other engine mods then I would suggest an aftermarket system or at least a unichip.

Check out the CAPA website and give them a call, Justin helped both me and 4.9 EF Futura out with our kits so ask for him. CAPA's prices are fairly high but when you consider they come with every last part it is money well spent IMO.
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:01 pm 
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thanks guys, what cost would these be installed you'd think? just been on the website, the powerdyne is $6300, vortech is $8000, the extra work i need on the vortech is in that price or on top?

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:54 pm 
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EL2XR8 wrote:
thanks guys, what cost would these be installed you'd think? just been on the website, the powerdyne is $6300, vortech is $8000, the extra work i need on the vortech is in that price or on top?


Depends how much you wanna do yourself.

The price CAPA quotes is supply only. Having said this, it comes with every last bolt, clip and cable needed to do the job. A powerdyne is the same price as the vortech (i.e. the supercharger unit) but the vortech kit comes with injectors, fuel pump, all the s**t needed to install the oil lines etc.

If your confident then the labour is free, just tools and consumables you need to buy. To pay someone to do it, you're probably looking at 2-3 days of labour... probably $1500 at most workshops... for powerdyne... vortech another day or so as injectors, fuel pump and oil lines must be fitted...

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:05 pm 
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Yes you'll need a bit of mechanical knowledge to install the Vortech on an EL XR8!!!
I'm hopefully almost finishing up on my Vortech install, with the help of 2 other mates, and its has taken and while, a few weekends. The main problem we have had is that i have built up the kit myself, so when i don't have a part i have to try and find something that will work, or buy something, which slows down the install.

I'm sure if there's anything you need to know about it all, there are quite a few guys that have helped me out a great deal!!! Now i'm starting to learn a lot more about it al, which is great!

Dave
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:22 pm 
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Wonder weather Capa would do a delete option on the fuel pump and injectors for the Vortech Kit as i already have a Walbro and 24's. HHHMM and nitrous injected blown 5.0, sounds like another plan is forming. Maybe then some one will buy the thing off me. Not happy with CAPA ATM. they have a deal on LS1 blowers til the end of the month, but not on Ford stuff DOH
Brett

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:32 pm 
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On the forged pistons subject, on turbomustangs.com there was an article making an argument that stock pistons will outlast the block under high boost applications. As long as there's no detonation.

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:34 pm 
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TerroristGHIA wrote:
Wonder weather Capa would do a delete option on the fuel pump and injectors for the Vortech Kit as i already have a Walbro and 24's. HHHMM and nitrous injected blown 5.0, sounds like another plan is forming. Maybe then some one will buy the thing off me. Not happy with CAPA ATM. they have a deal on LS1 blowers til the end of the month, but not on Ford stuff DOH
Brett


Yeah, give them a call (dont bother with email as they seldom replay) and have a chat. They're pretty reasonable guys and may cut you a deal.

All you'd really need is the blower, bracket, pulley system, intake plumbing, BOV etc.... intercooler or get one of their water injection kits (come with the blower kits).

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
On the forged pistons subject, on turbomustangs.com there was an article making an argument that stock pistons will outlast the block under high boost applications. As long as there's no detonation.


Sounds reasonable, the block is at its limit at 500hp with forced induction... you'd probably be up for new pistons to decomp motor if you're running insane amounts of boost...

Dart/FMS block another story :)

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:17 pm 
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Yeah CAPA will tailor a kit to suite your needs, thats what I did although there isn't much CAPA gear left on my car any more. IMO the best option is just to get the blower, brackets and pulley system from them and then design everythign else yourself, you will end up with a better finished product but it takes a lot more work too. As for pistons, as long as you keep the tune safe the stock engine will hold together quite well.

As for installation, a Powerdyne kit can probably be installed in 2-3 days hard work by yourself or it would take a mechanic 1-2 days (probably around $1k labour). The Vortech isn't that much more involved, injectors take around 1 hour to replace, and before starting the install I would just take the car in to a mechanic for them to fit the oil drain line in the sump (probably $100-200), other than that the install is pretty similar.
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:57 pm 
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thanks all,
so the extra $1700 for the vortech is just for the extra goods needed and supplied?
the actaul units are the same price?
If paying approx $8000 for the powerdyne installed would you just go the extra couple for the vortech installed?
Is it that much better you think and worthwhile for the vortech?

 

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Pacemaker Exhaust system with Hi-Flow Cats
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:59 pm 
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thanks all,
so the extra $1700 for the vortech is just for the extra goods needed and supplied?
the actaul units are the same price?
If paying approx $8000 for the powerdyne installed would you just go the extra couple for the vortech installed?
Is it that much better you think and worthwhile for the vortech?

 

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EL II XR8
Pedders Sports Suspension
Pacemaker Exhaust system with Hi-Flow Cats
Tickford / GT Body Kit
Electric Sunroof / Moonroof
FR19 Simmons Wheels
Ghia / GT Interior

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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:03 pm 
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IMO the Vortech is a far better unit. As I said the powerdyne is an OK street unit but the internal belt design (compared with the chain or the vortech) is fairly weak and boost max's out at 6-9psi depending on engine mods. The Vortech is a very strong unit and can be boosted to around 18psi but are generally setup to run around 11-12psi. The powerdyne kit should give you around 200rwkw while the Vortech kit should produce 240+rwkw.
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