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EL V8 Conversion 

 

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 Post subject: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Hi Fellas,

I am currently considering a few different options for me new EL ghia I just picked up. The car is running duel fuel and I plan on keeping it that way.
The car is just a standard straight 6. I was wondering if someone could list all the parts required to covert it to a v8.
I am looking at the AU motor instead due to the higher output engine along with the better flowing GT40 heads.

Thanks in advance
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Fairly easy - and not. I just did this with my EL - and put an EL 185Kw engine in.

You'll need :
Behind Dash Harness (its on the inside of the firewall)
ECU Harness
Trans. Computer
Engine ECU
V8 Pedal Box (it has mounts for the TCM on it)
hard Fuel lines (front to back) are preferable, but not essential (drill off, rivet on - they come much further forward in the engine bay). You can put these in without having to bleed brakes if your carefull
V8 Exhaust
V8 Engine + Gearbox.
Make sure you get the V8 Shift rod from the shifter - its a different length
Engine Harnesses
MAF etc (donor cars are a treat here)

Note that the EF Stuff WONT work in your EL. Just find a donor V8 EL (Fairlane, LTD, Fairmont, Falcon - all work) except the fuel lines (which can be EF, or EL, but must be sedan SWB)

Steering Rack from an EL V8, OR a 3/8x24tpi bolt of appropriate length + copper washer to block the i6 Steering Pressure Switch hole with after you remove it
Dont be tempted to use the EF Stuff unless you also get the Matching Intermediate shaft, and the EF Steering column as EF is different to EL

Good news is Crossmember is the same. Not so much work there. I used the i6 engine bay harness. The Alternator plugged in. I also used the i6 started power cable and Earth cable - the starter cable needs to be moved around a little though (best done before engine goes in for clearance) - it was 400mm from last "clip" to the starter motor end and I then worked backward. But the V8 also doesnt use the clip closest to the starter motor.

You'll also want : Steering pump, engine bay steering lines, Front of Car steering cooler. The Trans. Cooler is identical to the V8 so thats ok.

And : A/C - You'll need the one line that goes from Condensor to A/C Pump, and then to the evaporator.

In your case, if your going with GT40's you'll want a set of extractors that will fit (Advance headers I think are the ones that fit best, but there is one set of pacies too).
If your going with an AU Engine, you'll want the EF/L Distributor to replace the Coil Packs, the EF/EL V8 TPS's, and your going to need a EGR Emulator so the ECU runs best.

Simple - and all plug and play ;). of course there are a few things that Ive missed, but thats most of it.

I took 7 days (with some time off) to remove I6, remove dash, replace harnesses, and v8 in. But mine looks like it was there in the factory.

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Thanks you very much for your help Nigel. Your'e a champion thats exactly what I was after.

Would you please be able to list the prices next to some of the parts required so I can calcualte if it will be a viable option for me?

I can get hold of a complete au v8 engine with trans for $1500
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:53 pm 
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How complete is the AU Engine and Trans? - does it include the wiring and ECU?

If you have a complete (with wiring) V8 then my approach would be different.

The AU V8 uses a different power steering pump, Alternator, and A/C Pump. The advantage though is that the AU Stuff is common from I6 to V8, so if you break your A/C then it can be fixed cheap. An E Series V8 P/S pump is $lots, A/C pump is $lots (Even second hand), and the alternator is different to the I6 one as well (although you can swap the internals to fix one....)

So if you have a complete AU, then Id do the following :
Get hard Fuel Lines from E Series 5.0 ($100?)
Hoses from E Series 5.0 ($100 for top rad hose, although there is one on ebay for $80 with bayford at the moment, plus about $50 for the other front ones. Get the mackay engine to heater tap hoses, and go genuine ford for the heater tap to heater core ones as its the cheapest way to get them)
Fluids - depends
Engine Mounts from EF/EL 5.0 - can be cheap or expensive

And Id custom wire the AU ECU into the EL. Its a bit of work, but you get the AU ECU with integrated Trans. Control. You wouldnt have to swap the behind dash harness out, and with some carefull work youd have something that looks like it was meant to be there. You would still have to combine the I6 ECU Harness, with the AU V8 ECU one (because it also includes the ABS wiring).

As best as I can work it out, it should be a matter of splitting the two harnesses open, and taking the bits you need from each. You would need a J3 chip if it was Series II or III (most likely if your thinking GT40's) as youd need to disable smartshield ($130 or so - tiperformance.com.au)

So your costs wouldnt be too bad. You would be using all the AU stuff, so coil packs, no dizzy, no worries with EGR (AU doesnt use it) etc.

If you only have a bare AU Engine, and Trans, then Id think about shopping around for an EL V8 in poor condition to grab everything you need from. The Alternator will cost you over $100 s/h, P/S pump can be anywhere from $60 s/h if your lucky, to over $800 reco (only if your silly - but be warned - you can get new pumps for a lot less from the USA) - the A/C Pump is $600 new or around $100+ s/h. The wiring - well, I paid $130 for TCM, ECU, and the two harnesses, but I think I scored a bargain and I knew where to go. Most people want a lot more. But this way it would be an E-Series

Looking at that, Id really consider looking at the AU Wiring option. I know its something I can do - the harness modificatin would take me about a day or day and a half (Electronics is a hobby), and I believe the AU Transmission control is nicer too. Youd also save yourself the dash-out component, and the Pedal box swap. ANd if you did it right youd have something youd be very proud of.

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:52 am 
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Thanks heaps mate. You have been very helpful.
Now my next question is what are the au v8's like on a fuel? Because the car is running duel fuel and I intended to keeping it that way but just curious if I am going to loose fuel economy?

The car will be a daily so I dont want a guzzler. I would mostly drive it on gas and swtich to petrol when I want to give it a squirt here and there.

How do they go on gas? any issues? Can I still get the same fuel economy as I would from a 6?
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:29 am 
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Not sure if your gonna get the same economy as the 6.
Well - more like No, your not.

I get 400km a tank - about 30% town/70% freeway on LPG.
They go great on LPG, and even better on Vapour Injection but theres a bit of money in that.

They do get a little starved on LPG at the top end - unless you have an airod variable mixer (which isnt made any more) - and youd need joe at Crescent motorsport to give you more details as he has some experience with them.

I have the EL 185i XR8 engine in mine, and at the moment its LPG only. Im more than happy with it. I do miss the extra 50km you can get on the highway (on Vapour injection it can be more like 100-200km) but gee it sounds good.

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:15 am 
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I cut off the very ends of the V8 fuel lines off the donor car I had and connected them with rubber hose to the 6 cyl fuel lines, it worked a treat. Can get them out of a SWB OR LWB then too.

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Nigel, just bought a Df Ltd for the interior out of it, however it has a 5.0 in it thats given me some serious thoughts about putting it in my el gli to replace the 4.0. Reading this.. it cant be done?
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Dumpsta - half Half.

Firstly - the V8 is a noise improvement, but not a performance improvement (although you can put AU V8's in later). It uses about 10-20% more fuel on everyday use, and is a little heavier. The only good reason to do it is "I just want a V8". Otherwise Id stick with 6's. Of course, I now have an XF 5.0 EFI and an EL One.

I just used an EF XR8 as the donor for my car : I used the transmission, steering lines, trans cooling lines, a/c lines etc, and the Engine and trans wiring harness (actually on the engine). Youve also got the V8 Pedalbox that youd need for the trans ECU

I went and got an DL behind dash harness, TCM, EEC and the EEC Harness - mostly because I wanted the end product to still be an EL Fairmont with factory wiring. That also meant no work on the ABS etc as it all plugged in.

Gods honest truth is that with what you have you can build what you need using both the V8 and I6 harnesses you have. That would take time, but its not impossible. Id use the I6 harness behind the dash, and graft the V8 behind dash stuff from the 5.0 into it. That keeps your ABS wiring correct.
Id also strip the ECU harness from the EL down - and retain the Washer bottle wiring, and ABS Wiring - and add the EF Harness to that. If your good, You'll end up with a harness thats a little bit "bastard" - and uses EF 3 wire thermo fan control instead of EL.

Your Third option - and probably the most cost effective is to just source the Behind dash EL 5.0 Harness, and the EL ECU harness. One wire (the SPSS Wire that goes out under the brake master cylinder) will need to be redone completely as this is the third fan control wire on and EF ECU. Id just cut that wire on the ECU Harness, and run a wire through the back of the heater box (where the factory wire goes) along with the ABS Wiring. Run it to the front passenger side of the car, and use it and the two original wires in the EL Harness to wire in the EF Fan Relay block. Then use the EF Thermo Fans. Quick modification, and you can use your EF 5.0 ECU and TCM as they are.

I was almost going to do the EF Harness rewire, but I picked the EL harnesses up for what I thought was a bargain. Id try and stick with the EL Dash harnesses if I could as the EL BCM seems to be a lot more reliable than the EF one (which often gets starting/smartlock trouble)

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:41 pm 
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If you're handy with a multimeter, soldering iron and can read a wiring diagram, you can do what I did:

- 1x ED V8 wagon
- 1x EF 6cyl high series loom(behind dash)
- 1x DL LTD V8 engine loom

and then make it all work. Not impossible or hard for that matter. If you're after a relatively simple straight forward conversion, just get everything off an EL/NL/DL 5.0L wreck like what Nigel has recommended.

Do a search on my old wagon in here or in the Garage. I nutted it all out. Sadly, I sold it a couple of years back and if I had room, I'd buy the old girl back.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:55 pm 
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Mate - your wagon is still doing the rounds.... isnt it in Newcastle or so now?

The other thing I considered saying was that the only reason you cant use the entire EF wiring is that the ABS unit is different. The pumps arent the same, and the ABS is a different revision.

However, as the ABS unit is an all-in-one unit you could just wire in all of the NF Harnesses, *except* the ones from the Drivers door rearward. The Fairlane ones are longer (about a foot). You could actually leave that slack under the passenger seat if you were careful.

If you get a copy of the EF/EL Ford Factory wiring manuals, youd be able to rewire the EL ABS connector onto the EF Wiring Harness. use the EL ABS Sensors and EL Abs unit (the sensors changed impedance in EF -> EL... apparently). There is a one-wire miss-match, but you should be able to work around that with the wires that are already available. I think from memory that you can just delete (dont connect) the one spare wire.

That one change would allow you to use the entire Dash, Windows, V8, everything in the EL

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:54 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
If you get a copy of the EF/EL Ford Factory wiring manuals, youd be able to rewire the EL ABS connector onto the EF Wiring Harness. use the EL ABS Sensors and EL Abs unit (the sensors changed impedance in EF -> EL... apparently). There is a one-wire miss-match, but you should be able to work around that with the wires that are already available. I think from memory that you can just delete (dont connect) the one spare wire.
The two units are Bosch - 2U in EFI's, 5.3 in EFII/EL. The 5.3 units are used up to BA (3 channel that is) - From AU's on there were 4 channel units too.
I've upgraded to the 5.3 in my EFXR6 wagon - no probs using the earlier Bosch sensors, tone wheels, etc. Impedances are same from what I can find. You do need to swap the wheel arch pipelines, and the pipe going to the front right wheel. The extra wire in the EFI's is one of the two ABS light wires, IIRC the 5.3 unit only has one.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:14 am 
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Cheers guys, you all laid that out nicely. The gli doesnt have abs that looks to save a lot of hassle. I reckon it may be worth sitting the engine and box aside til i can source the woring from an el. Any differences between the engines ef/el wise? Thanks again and I apologize for hijacking the thread.
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:42 am 
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Dumpsta - if you dont have ABS, then you can just use all of the NF wiring. Dash, rear of car etc. Fans, Dash etc.

I would encourage you to check with Rego though first and see if youd be allowed to register the car with a V8 - They may require ABS with it.

If you do pull the engine out, make sure you get all of the wiring anyway - and keep the BEM as well.

There arent any power differences EB -> EL/NL, except for the XR8 Sprint, the EB GT, and the EL GT, and the very late EL 185kw XR8's. The engines and gearboxes are the same with some tweaks in the XR8 boxes I believe for shifting

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EL V8 Conversion
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Dumpsta wrote:
Cheers guys, you all laid that out nicely. The gli doesnt have abs that looks to save a lot of hassle. I reckon it may be worth sitting the engine and box aside til i can source the woring from an el. Any differences between the engines ef/el wise? Thanks again and I apologize for hijacking the thread.



No problems mate. That's what forums are for, to help each other out ;)
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