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Engine symptoms? 

 

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 Post subject: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:12 pm 
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What are symptoms of flooding (overfueling) and starving (not enough fuel)? Car does not back fire ever leading me to think it is starving.

Car is on gas also, is perfect power wise - it revs hard and chirps the tyres when flooring it hard sometimes (no complaints).

Problem is when im on petrol and floor it the car fluctuates on power while going through the gear changes (auto) and bogs when flooring it standing still.

Have cleaned the MAF with electrical cleaner (made no difference) unplugging it and reving engine makes the car stall (so it still works), Injectors have been serviced, new petrol filter, new fuel reg (OEM ford part), leads are less than 6 months old, Spark plugs are about a year old. No air leeks from hoses anywhere.

Trying to narrow down the problem I have as no one seems to have a clue.

This is how the car has been going for over 2 years now and am fed up with it now. I will try a fuel pump from some where if i find one and hope it fixes my situation. (starving??)

any other ideas will be great. :(

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:18 pm 
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without knowing the specifics of your car, or the gas system (ie lets assume its an open loop system) you could have a faulty TPS, 02 sensor, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor which could all cause it to do weird stuff.

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for 30 mins or so and then reconnecting and driving it to see if the symptoms occur immediately with a cleared ECU?

On the V8's auto's you can swap the TPS connectors around to aid in troubleshooting, but with EFI, basically its a timely process of elimination...
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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:39 pm 
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Possibly a fuel line/rail blockage? It sounds like you have ruled out alot of the common occurrences.

I just found out my car also a ef v8, was chugging (among other things) Which acted just like my EB 6 before the pump shat itself- funnily it was the speed sensor gears on the shaft of the sensor and inside the rear tranmission housing - Car was sluggy, gears changing allover the place - no cruise.
Just a thought.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Check your fuel filter & fuel pump.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Do a self test.
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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:34 pm 
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66 coupe wrote:
without knowing the specifics of your car, or the gas system (ie lets assume its an open loop system) you could have a faulty TPS, 02 sensor, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor which could all cause it to do weird stuff.
Have you tried disconnecting the battery for 30 mins or so and then reconnecting and driving it to see if the symptoms occur immediately with a cleared ECU?
...



It has an Impco system and the 02 sensors were changed over 7 months ago. How do you check the sensors to see if they work and where abouts on the engine are they?
I have disconnected the battery 4 times- once for a week. overnight, 20 minutes and 2 hours and it didnt do squat.

How would you do a self test on ED?
I have seen a docco on the EF-EL but not for the EB-ED. The EF-EL docco says the codes light up on the dash.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:21 am 
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it's the same except the codes won't flash on the dash...I use a multimeter.

What often happens with gas systems is the HEGO's read lean all the time the gas is on because stoic on gas is about 15.7:1 rather than 14.7:1 on petrol. So the EEC adapts rich and sometimes gas systems can be hit and miss with A/F control often running lean. SO you end up reaching the adaptive rich limit. So when you switch to petrol it runs rich until it adapts back again but if you switch back to gas before it does you go through the whole process again.

So do the self test before you do anything else.
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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:31 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
it's the same except the codes won't flash on the dash...I use a multimeter.

What often happens with gas systems is the HEGO's read lean all the time the gas is on because stoic on gas is about 15.7:1 rather than 14.7:1 on petrol. So the EEC adapts rich and sometimes gas systems can be hit and miss with A/F control often running lean. SO you end up reaching the adaptive rich limit. So when you switch to petrol it runs rich until it adapts back again but if you switch back to gas before it does you go through the whole process again.

So do the self test before you do anything else.


stoic is stoic, the o2 has no idea what the actual ratio is, so in the end its irrelevent what the actual fuel u use to get a stoic reading...the LPG feedback computer will constantly be trying to maintain lambda, so for all intents and purposes the ecu see a realtively correct A/F....also there is usually a relay which isolates the the HEGO from the ecu when on LPG....dont know how the ecu reacts long term to a lack of HEGO input but??

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:34 am 
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pete - how often does the self test tell the truth...... unless somethings really out of whack, it generally shows 2/3 of s**t all

hence my comment
Quote:
Have you tried disconnecting the battery for 30 mins or so and then reconnecting and driving it to see if the symptoms occur immediately with a cleared ECU?


That will clear any adaptive limits reached....

There is more going on with that car than fuel trims,
Providing its not the pump, as the OP suggested changing, then its a long process of elimination.
Also depends how they have chopped the injection side of it out with the gas ecu, it could also be wiring related
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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:20 pm 
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If only you guys were in Sydney to have a look at it :(

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:26 pm 
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mine dose the same thing... i havent tryed to fix it tho

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:28 pm 
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Just changed the injectors today as I had a spare lower HO that came of a low km EF that I know ran perfect, and sofar it seems to have worked. Of all the times im on the road, today I couldn't find an empty lane as there were cars everywhere :x and I couldn't open it up even just a little.
Later on when going home hpoefully the traffic is alot less, ill see how bad it still bogs or iff its cleared up.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:43 am 
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There seems to be a small fuelling issue now compared to before, alot happier though.
On petrol the car seems to feel really heavy like im towing 2 cars, but on gas it feels so light and free :? Any one got a clue as to why this is?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:27 pm 
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gogetta wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
it's the same except the codes won't flash on the dash...I use a multimeter.

What often happens with gas systems is the HEGO's read lean all the time the gas is on because stoic on gas is about 15.7:1 rather than 14.7:1 on petrol. So the EEC adapts rich and sometimes gas systems can be hit and miss with A/F control often running lean. SO you end up reaching the adaptive rich limit. So when you switch to petrol it runs rich until it adapts back again but if you switch back to gas before it does you go through the whole process again.

So do the self test before you do anything else.


stoic is stoic, the o2 has no idea what the actual ratio is, so in the end its irrelevent what the actual fuel u use to get a stoic reading...the LPG feedback computer will constantly be trying to maintain lambda, so for all intents and purposes the ecu see a realtively correct A/F....also there is usually a relay which isolates the the HEGO from the ecu when on LPG....dont know how the ecu reacts long term to a lack of HEGO input but??


If stoic on petrol is 14.64:1 and stoic on LPG is 15.7:1 then stoic is NOT stoic!
The EEC is still running the engine even if there is an LPG computer controlling the gas....hence the conflict between the two.
Most LPG controllers do not have a relay that isolates the HEGO's which is why I have seen this problem before.


Jamie, If you get a fault code it means what it says. Do you mean you get no codes?
Clearing the KAM is fine but if you don't change anything it will adapt that way all over again.
What you could do is make a HEGO simulator which is enabled only when on LPG to spit out a voltage equivalent to 14.64:1.
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 Post subject: Re: Engine symptoms?
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:00 pm 
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FIXED!!!!
I changed the fuel pump with another one that 100% works and the car pulls and revs so strong. Standing still and flooring it even spins the wheels, so I am stoked.
No more surging or stumblig during accelarating. :mrgreen:

 

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