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Help on thermo fan install 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
Ef Fans are all ECU Controlled - so the ECU knows that A/C is on, and also if the A/C Circuit goes over pressure - so fans can be any speed.
... not a fixed combination. Hence some cars have a seperate fan for A/C.


Not exactly sure what your saying here? :?

Both EF & EL thermos are controlled by the EEC-V... and I haven't got mine up and going yet (EEC-V goes in when cam goes in) to know what speed they are on when the AC is running... Yes your right, when AC is on the computer knows it, increases revs slightly to cope with added load and brings on thermos to assist in pressure relief...

Most modern cars don't have a separate thermo for AC (not the falcons anyway) its integrated with the existing thermos via the EEC...

Cheers...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:27 pm 
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The Ef/L are a little smarter than that - if you use an EF/L ECU in your EB, then you dont get the A/C Pressure sensor. With it - the EF/L will not turn on the thermo fans if the a/c is on, but the Condensor isnt getting pressure (for example if your moving in traffic). It only turns the fan on once pressure comes up (when it gets warm).

The EB/D dont have that sensor.

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:31 pm 
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really?

where is this sensor?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Attachment:
EF-EL Computer Wiring Pin Outs.xls [24.5 KiB]
Downloaded 133 times


Shown in here is three things related to AC...

On is the fact AC is on... One is pressure cut out on the TX valve... The last is the cut out capillary on the evaporator... It doesn't show any other sensors inputting into it?

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 11:46 am 
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Yes EL is two speed.....when the A/C system is off then fans low when engine warm, then high when engine gets hot. If the a/c is low (a/c fan speed 1 or 2) then fans are low and if a/c is high (a/c fan speed 3 or 4) then the thermos go on high. So if I get in my car on a humid morning the engine is cold but the a/c is flatout and the thermos spin flatout....makes it take a bit longer to heat up though.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:57 pm 
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Fan speed doesn't have any effect on AC to my knowledge... the compressor runs at engine rpm... it determines the pressure... unless this is governed by the pressure in the system by this other sensor nigel was talking about... it there is stacks of pressure maybe this triggers high speed, if there is low pressure then maybe low speed?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Shouldn't make it take longer to heat up though... when you termostat is closed water doesn't travel through the radiator... the thermostat is there to control temp and should heat up at the same rate regardless of thermos...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:01 pm 
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No you are right - it shouldn't take longer to heat up I'm probably exaggerating that a bit....it takes probably the same to heat up whether the fans are on or not. I actually read on the tech doco's a couple of years back how to diagnose the thermos to determine if they are working properly and thats how I discovered the whole fan control thing....

If I get into my car cold with the a/c off the fans won't start. Turn the a/c onto either 1 or 2 blower speed and the thermos kick in (even though engine temp is only 30degs) and if I turn the blower speed to 3 or 4 the thermos kick in on high (even whilst engine temp is rougly 30 odd).

I've also read on here somewhere that the ECU can differentiate between ac low and hi. How it does this I don't know but I'm guessing its connected to the blower somehow because when I operate the a/c as described above the thermo response is instant.

The one thing that I don't understand is if I get in the car start it up and the a/c is on from the last time I drove the car and I turn it off - the fans stay on low speed even though the engine is still cold!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:28 pm 
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that might be a feature to help cool the gas in the condensor so as to reduce the reduce the pressure further so next time the compressor starts its not starting under a massive head pressure... Only a thought... But might something along those lines...

I posted the pin out chart for the EEC-V on the first page... There is only 3 things that appear to ac conditioning...

One is an input from the switch to say its on, one is the input from the pressure switch on the tx valve to say pressure is at an aceptable level to run, and one is the input from the capillary which is clipped to the evaporator inside the airbox... or at least this is my understanding anyway...

I'll look into a bit more to see i'm right or wrong...

not sure how your fan speed is controlling it then...

anyway will do some research and post the findings up here... as now with these comments I'm as willing to know exactly what inputs the computer does see to trigger the fans...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:43 pm 
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It would be interesting to find out what if anything the blower has to do with the switching of the fans. Was EECV ever fitted to any of the V8s?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:56 pm 
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yeah... ED was EEC-IV and EF/EL were EEC-V

later model computer more features...

If someone has a factory EF/EL manual they'll upload and email to me? :mrgreen:

I doubt its fan speed related... I'd still be leaning to pressure related...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Hey cheers man, that diagram is tops. Will come in handy when i pull all the wiring out to do it again, as at the moment i just have it all dodgily connected so i can run the car :mrgreen:

With those temp sensors, do you still need the thermal switch? I was checking out some fan kits from summit racing, they look like a much easier, and better kit than the davies craig gear, and only $45 US!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:59 pm 
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i don't like the idea of the davies craig one... it uses an old technology mechanical capillary line, stuck down a heater hose... I know there is a rubber seal for it, but I just think is a cheap nasty way of triggering fans...

If you use a tridon switch... one that will fit into a spare bung in your thermostat housing, or make your own bung if you can... then run the two or three wires to it, wire up the relays as I had shown you... Only thing is where I show the EEC-V switching the relays, you will have that temp switch switching the relays...

As I said if you pick a switch I can rough up a diagram for you with 4 relays, which will give you two speeds (requires the temp switch with two sets of contacts at different temps for each set)... buy the switch, go to a wreckers and cut the fan relay block out of an EF so you get the 4 relays... re-wire according to my diagram I draw and hook two single speed fans to it, be it after-market or genuine EL fans and you'll get two speeds plug the ac trigger...

which ever suits you better... this way or that 45US one... up to you... I'm happy to help where I can either way though...

Cheers...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:04 pm 
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timmytimtim wrote:
i don't like the idea of the davies craig one... it uses an old technology mechanical capillary line, stuck down a heater hose... I know there is a rubber seal for it, but I just think is a cheap nasty way of triggering fans...

If you use a tridon switch... one that will fit into a spare bung in your thermostat housing, or make your own bung if you can... then run the two or three wires to it, wire up the relays as I had shown you... Only thing is where I show the EEC-V switching the relays, you will have that temp switch switching the relays...

As I said if you pick a switch I can rough up a diagram for you with 4 relays, which will give you two speeds (requires the temp switch with two sets of contacts at different temps for each set)... buy the switch, go to a wreckers and cut the fan relay block out of an EF so you get the 4 relays... re-wire according to my diagram I draw and hook two single speed fans to it, be it after-market or genuine EL fans and you'll get two speeds plug the ac trigger...

which ever suits you better... this way or that 45US one... up to you... I'm happy to help where I can either way though...

Cheers...


So the tridon switch does it all? All i need would be the tridon switch, relays and wire??

That sounds good. Personally i hate the davies craig switch, it looks ugly as hell and messy.

I have EEC-IV so don't have the switching capabilty from an ECU.

I have EL fans at the moment, the ones with the single block connector with two black wires and two red wires.

That would be great, thanks!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Help on thermo fan install
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:10 pm 
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thats fine... because I still know the go from the factory gear yet...

if you want AC to trigger it... Do you want them on high (which will be almighty noisy) or only low when the AC is on?

and if you have a look at the tridon switches tell me which one you think you'll use (on and off temps are listed as well as thread sizes) and I can draw from that...

All the ugly craig davies thing is, is an old mechanical switch... its either on or off... does not offer two speeds (unless you mount two of the ugly things)... the tridon one is a nice little brass thing you screw into the thermostat housing, rather than stick down a hose... only difficulty you might have, is the switches with a fancy connector, you might need to find out what car they are made to suit (as listed on their website somewhere i think) and cut the plug off from a wreckers to plug into the switch...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
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