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How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series 

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Bennett can build the engine you require for sure. You could do a cam swap but honestly, even a mild 351 will give you such good torque you'll probably not bother changing anyway.
If it were me I'd put a stock F-series 351 in it for rego using the aftermarket intake I would be using later on the hotter engine then swap it for whole hottie engine later:) That way, outwardly it looks the same. Just machine off all the trickflow or Edelbrock logos and write Ford on it.
Ford Racing blocks are just as tough as Dart blocks and in some cases tougher.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:17 pm 
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If the tune is good, and you have it tuned on E85, then it can still pass. A stock block is good for 450fwkw. What kills them is revs or big boost. You would be surprised how much abuse they can take.

Using stock bits with a tuned stock ecu will help ensure it passes emissions. The test station at Penrith are really good, and if you fail the report explains where. Mine passed with massive heads and a comp cams 282. So it is possible.
The rules are specific, and the way around them is to use a stock bore, and an 11thou offset undergrind on the crank. This gives you 5749cc's and is permitted as an owner certified fitment in nsw. Anything bigger will require an engineer cert to be legal.

Hope that helps
Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:40 pm 
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TerroristGHIA wrote:
If the tune is good, and you have it tuned on E85, then it can still pass. A stock block is good for 450fwkw. What kills them is revs or big boost. You would be surprised how much abuse they can take.

Using stock bits with a tuned stock ecu will help ensure it passes emissions. The test station at Penrith are really good, and if you fail the report explains where. Mine passed with massive heads and a comp cams 282. So it is possible.
The rules are specific, and the way around them is to use a stock bore, and an 11thou offset undergrind on the crank. This gives you 5749cc's and is permitted as an owner certified fitment in nsw. Anything bigger will require an engineer cert to be legal.

Hope that helps
Brett


New Ausvis regs released a few weeks ago, pretty much state,

15% increase over stock is fine, anything between 15-20% needs to be signed off by an engineer but is also fine, anything OVER 20% from the largest option motor avalible in that vehicle series cannot be legally engineered. Checked it out last week on tuesday, this was confirmed by both an inspection station and an engineer. not sure what relevance this plays in this thread, but yeah..

So a 351 in NSW as a direct bolt in is NOT legal regardless of who you inform of the capacity change, it is however 100% legal if you go through an engineer.
an extra 60.4 ci is the max legal amount. No ifs or buts.

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:55 pm 
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CaptainYeeha wrote:
xr9ute said he modified them where can I get mine modified I live in Sydney.
Thanks
Cliff

Luckily for you, I live in Sydney also......

Cheers

Daz

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Also the capacity of a 351 to the letter of RMS law is 5766cc.
To have it listed as anything else if done legit would require an engineer to sign it off after physically inspecting the stripped down motor.
My brother had an unengineered 351 Windsor in his XD when he first got it which went through a blue slip in NSW and had the correct engine numbers on the papers.
Doenst mean it was legal but.
It was 100% legal capacity wise , but as the Windsor wasnt released in the XD there was no emissions compliance so was never legal to be fitted.

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:06 am 
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I can't believe they put an even stricter limit on the cubic inch allowed...but if I put in a 351 Windsor stock motor in it and get it engineered and then get Bennett to build me a 434 stroker and like you said grind off all logos on the aftermarket stuff and maybe even paint the alloy heads the same as the block...Can you paint those shiny alloy heads or will the paint not stick I suppose after you sand them down you can paint them or can you. They can't tell how many cubic inch I have in the motor can they without stripping it down? What about rules on turbos and supercharging and what is the fine like if I am caught with a bottle of laughing gas in the boot (Nitrous).
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:53 am 
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I wouldn't even bother, no cop would even know you can fit a 351 in an e series let alone spot the difference between a 302 and 351. I'd just go 418 and be done with it. In 14 years of driving v8's i've never had a cop even lift the bonnet of one of my cars. Don't give them an attitude and they will generally leave you alone.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:20 am 
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NLGHIA5.0 wrote:
I wouldn't even bother, no cop would even know you can fit a 351 in an e series let alone spot the difference between a 302 and 351. I'd just go 418 and be done with it. In 14 years of driving v8's i've never had a cop even lift the bonnet of one of my cars. Don't give them an attitude and they will generally leave you alone.


Zigactly!
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Should be more of a common swap in eseries seeing as to get a 347 built by a workshop isnt cheap, im still undecided with what plans i have for the au in the future but you would think that a bog stock 351 should be able to hit 13's with very little done mods wise.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:10 pm 
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RAPTOR_XR8 wrote:
Should be more of a common swap in eseries seeing as to get a 347 built by a workshop isnt cheap, im still undecided with what plans i have for the au in the future but you would think that a bog stock 351 should be able to hit 13's with very little done mods wise.


Yep, My old XR did 14.4 with the stock truck 351 and high 13,s with just a Cobra intake and that was with a 3.00:1 open 9" and Toploader. An E-series should do considerably better just from a drag point of view.
Also consider you can do a 393 for less than the cost of a 347 kit and it's more durable to boot.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:34 pm 
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3.85 stroke, and 302 sized pistons, 30 thou over bore and say hello to a 393. Its something I have been looking into for a while now.

Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Yes the allure of a 351w stroked out to 393 has been a dream of mine for awhile, would be cheap cubes increase tbh.

I seem to keep getting stuck on the edis in the au if i did such a conversion, as the 351 uses a thicker dizzy shaft etc not exactly bolt on right there...
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:45 am 
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WARMACHINE wrote:
Yes the allure of a 351w stroked out to 393 has been a dream of mine for awhile, would be cheap cubes increase tbh.

I seem to keep getting stuck on the edis in the au if i did such a conversion, as the 351 uses a thicker dizzy shaft etc not exactly bolt on right there...



Ok from doing a little research on the net , having had a play with fitting AU front dress to an E series motor , knowing how Bretts motor is setup and a bit of sideways thinking I reckon Ive sussed out how to do it.

1. Brett is running complete standard E series front dress with no mods on his car. He is running the Ford Motorsport balancer as stated earlier.

2. From discussions with xcabbi and having mocked it up myself AU front dress can be fitted to an E series motor if you space the mounting brackets out 9mm for the AU belt to line up with the E series pulley. So therefore the exact thing can be done to an AU motor with fitting the E series crank pulley like Brett has done. The only difference is the crank angle sensor will need to be spaced off the timing case the same amount. Easily done.

3. You can buy 36-1 trigger wheels from diyautotune http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/trig ... c09d3546e7 cheap. They are made to bolt onto the early style balancer and the AU trigger wheel is 36-1. So when spacing out the crank angle sensor and the front dress you would have to take the 1/8" thickness of the trigger wheel into account as well , if you mounted the trigger wheel between the crank pulley and the balancer. Once again easily done.

4. Cam angle sensor problem is cured by fitting the shaft from a 99+ 3.8L Mustang CAS to the standard 5.0 sensor. Once again fairly easily done. http://forums.corral.net/forums/aem-ems ... stall.html

Then its just sorting the rest of the stuff out the same as Brett and Pete have done.

Whats the brains trust think? Now I think Ive sussed that out maybe just maybe a 408 setup from Ford Strokers will end up being the intelligent way for me to travel with mine?

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:49 am 
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The only thing I didn't think of last night was the water pump.
The AU water pump is shorter then the E series.
There would be a couple of fixes to that both pretty easy.
An E series water pump will bolt straight up but will require use of the E series pulley.
The other fix would be have another AU style water pump pulley machined up that was about 10mm thicker in the rear mounting face to stick it out in line with the belt.
Myself I would use the E series water pump and an underdrive kit. You get all the pulleys then that you would need and since AU's are under driven from the factory it will bring everything back closer to standard spec.

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:59 am 
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Cheers Matt,

I don't like those bolt on encoder wheels I have to say. There will be a fair bit of work machining a very large hole in excatly in the middle which, will actually cut into the bolt hole slots and weaken the whole thing. You don't want any runout on an encoder wheel and with the extensions needed for the pickup it could create mis-trigger problems.
This is why we make a special press on wheel and machine the balancer on our conversions for $275 including the machining of the balancer, it's quality and piece of mind and no f**k around with spacers etc.
With the AU water pump pulley, I can't remember if there was enough pulley width to allow some spacing of the other accesories anyway? Even so an E-series pump is a better idea because, along with your E-series balancer it allows the use of underdrive pulleys as you say.
CID sensors I knew about from Thomas' 351c Pantera years ago...
http://www.hax.se/efi/
There is another option here too. If you don't need the clearance a modified encoder wheel inside a stock 351 TFI dizzy can do the job also. It's certainly not as pretty but it works.
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