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How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series 

 

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 Post subject: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:21 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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OK guys, i stole this from Mustang Empire, and most of it was on the money. I have added bits and peices as they pertained to my install.

Information gathered was from ton of research, and actually doing the swap on a serious budget. Keep in mind though, You always spend more than you plan to. Its Murphys Law.

Ok, here we go.

PARTS/MODIFICATIONS ABSOLUTELY NEEDED FOR SWAP!

1) OILPAN AND PICKUP TUBE
You will ABSOLUTELY need a new oil pan and pick up tube. I used an ASR track pan with windage tray and valves/trap doors.
2) 28oz IMBALANCES
You will ABSOLUTELY need to obtain a 28oz. 157 tooth flywheel and 28oz harmonic balancer. You can find both of these on summit.

3) LOWER / UPPER INTAKE MANIFOLD
You will ABSOLUTELY have to change your intake setup. The 351 intake is wider. If you have a Cobra (gt40) intake or a TFS intake now, both companies sell just a lower intake for the 351 to match the upper intake you already have.

4) PS/AC BRACKET. I used the factory 5.0 front end dress from my EF. The only thing i needed was a longer belt and a specific lower pully.

5) HEADERS
If you use stock heads, a stock set of headers should fit. Due to my Twisted wedge heads i had to have a custom set made.The 351 will also sit a little higher than the 302 in which 302 headers may not reach the H-pipe. YOU CAN USE STOCK HEADERS IF YOU DESIRE (details at bottom)

6) COWELED HOOD??
You may or may not Need a coweled hood. It depends on how tall your intake is, also what motor mounts you use. Most setups dont clear the stock hood, so be prepared to shell out some cash, or to have fun with a dremel. As seen in my thread, using the manifold i did, i needed a BA bulge and it needed to be lifted another 2 inches to clear.

7) DISTRIBUTOR
You will ABSOLUTELY need a new distributor. The distributor is different from a 351 to a 302. You can obtain one from a 5.8 FI truck or from MSD. I believe it might be important to mention weather or not your engine is a rollercam or flat-tappet when ordering the distributor to insure you get the right Distributor gear.

8) HEADBOLT HOLE MODIFICATION
You will ABSOLUTELY Have to drill your existing 302 heads. The reason for this is that the headbolts on a 351w are larger. Some newer aftermarket heads are predrilled for the 351, but most are not. This is not a difficult task. You simply need to drill out your existing headbolts to be a small amount larger. Take a 351 headbolt with you when your drilling so you dont Overdrill.

9) Engine mounts. My stock factory mounts bolted up, but the right hand bracket needed to be trimmed slightly as it wasnt quite as snug a fit as it should have been.

10) HOSES, CABLES, NUTS&BOLTS
The swap requires all sorts of little miniscule items which you will need to get for your personal application. These items may/maynot include , Larger Headbolts, Throttle brackets, etc..
If you cant figure out what parts you need for these items, You are not qualified to be doing the swap.

11) OTHER
If a part was not mentioned, it means it is not required for the swap. Yes its nice to have subframe connectors, and while most people will argue its a neccesity for this much power, it is not required. When doing the swap you can do many things on a budget (as I did) But remember to get the overlooked parts in conjunction with your new power.
(suspension/trans/rearend/brakes/rollbar/etc...)

12) ENGINE
Yes, having a 351w block is a prerequisite for the swap, do not forget this step! lol

Now, for those money saving tips

Using stock AC/PS Bracket
I was able to use the stock brackets.

Using stock headers
Headers. If your cheap you dont need to get new headers. The stock shorty headers CAN be used. It will be tight, but it definitely can be done. You will also need to modify your H-Pipe. THIS WORKS. YOU DO NOT NEED AFTERMARKET HEADERS (although I reccomend you get them if you have the cash)

Aftermarket Headers for a 302 in regards to swap:
Havent tryed installing longtubes onto a 351w, But I would put money on the fact that it would not work without SERIOUS Modifications. The stock headers BARELY fit, so attempting to use non-swap longtubes will most likely be a loss.
I have seen other typical shortie aftermarket headers however make the jump into a 351 with NO modification to the headers at all. Apparently aftermarket headers fit in nicely. Just keep in mind that if you dont buy proper swap headers, you will HAVE to modify your Hpipe, Making it impossible to upgrade to swap headers in the future, But allowing you to use any 302 style shortie header that is for a non swap function.
Let me clear this up so everyone can understand easily.
long tubes - Not worth the time labor to install
stock - some header modifications neccesary, but works great
aftermarket shorties - most fit like a glove, Remember you must mod Hpipe tho


A final note:
You should realise that in most instances, when people are going to a 351 platform, They tend to add other performance parts with it. Keep in mind how much HP/TQ you are realisticlly putting to the ground, and remember to consider the outcome if you put over 350 WHP to your tranny on a launch.
This is here to server as a informative dish for the engine side of the swap, and may develop into more. If you plan on doing this swap right, You should absolutely have a stronger rear end, and an upgraded transmission. Just be prepared to break more things. I have been lucky so far, but the stresses of competition will tell.

351w Swap Info.

Will it fit?

The deck height of a 351w is 9.480" for 1969-1970 blocks and 9.503" for 1971 and up blocks compared to the 8.2" deck height of the 302w block. This equates to a taller and wider motor. The motor mounts on 351w and 302w blocks are interchangeable.
Can I reuse any 302w parts on the 351w?

There are many interchangeable parts between the Windsor blocks. The 351w uses a wider intake than the 302w, but you can use a cobra upper with a 351w specific lower intake. Timing covers, water pumps, and several of the accessory brackets are interchangeable. You do need a FMS power steering and a/c bracket in most cases. Cylinder heads from a 302 can be used on a 351w block by drilling the head boltholes to accommodate the larger 1/2" 351w head bolts. The 302w fuel rail can be modified to fit the 351w by extending the rail crossover tube.
Will my 302w balancer work on my 351w?

The 351w uses a 28oz/in imbalance that is the same as early 302's. You can use a 28oz/in 302 balancer on the 351w.
What is needed to use the serpentine belt setup from a 302 on a 351w?

I used the complete stock front end dress. I also used Ford Racing M-6316-K351 - Ford Racing Crankshaft Damper Assemblies and this allowed me to use the stock lower pulley with perfect alignment.

What parts are a must have for a 351w installation?

First, you need an oil pan and matching pickup to mount the 351w into the your falcon that will clear the K-member. Moroso, Miloden, Canton, and FRPP and ASR all make exceptional 351w Mustang swap oil pans. Note that the FRPP version is a 5-quart capacity design while the others are 7 quarts. Second, an intake is needed. EFI Edelbrock and TFS make intakes for EFI equipped 351's. You can also use a FRPP Cobra upper with a matching lower. You will need a 351w specific distributor. MSD and EFI equipped 351w Thick Film Ignition distributors will work with the Ford EFI EEC.

What block should I use?

I used an F4TE block, which is a 94 roller block out of an american E series Van. All pre 1994 factory 351w blocks are non-roller designs. Blocks produced before the early 1980's used a two-piece rear main seal. Ford trucks and vans produced after the mid 70's use a stronger rod design often referred to as 'Football' rods because of their football shaped bolt heads. 1969-1970 blocks had a lower deck height (9.480") and provide more compression from the factory. These early blocks also have a stronger thick wall casting design and are often thought of as the strongest factory 351w block. Keep in mind that all 351w blocks are considerable stronger than the factory 302w block. If you need an exceptionably strong 351w block design FRPP and Dart both offer aftermarket 351w blocks in many varieties.
How do I install a roller cam in my 351w?

The easiest way to use a roller cam in the 351w is to find a F4TE casting number block from 1994 and later F-series trucks and E-series vans. If you happen to have a block produced before 1994 you can retrofit a roller cam quite easily. The first option is using 5.0L hydraulic roller lifters, retention spider, and lifter link bars with a reduced base circle hydraulic roller camshaft. This method requires machining the lifter valley to accept the spider bolts. Second, Comp, Crane, and Crower make retrofit roller lifter that will allow the use of any off the shelf 5.0L style hydraulic roller cam to be used in a non-roller 351w block. Any flat tappet 351w-302w flat tappet camshafts will work with the correct corresponding firing order.

What about a fuel system?

The 351w is defiantly going to consume fuel at a higher rate than a smaller motor and you should upgrade the stock fuel system to provide for this thirst. EFI equipped Falcons should use at least a 190lph in tank fuel pump and 24+ pound injectors. An adjustable fuel pressure regulator should be utilized with both EFI.


Thats my 2 cents and i hope it helps those out there considering the swap.

Cheers
Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:18 am 
Smokin em up
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From seeing a 351 F4TE in an EB GT, i'm pretty sure the Diphillipo headers bolt pretty much straight up. But I will get that confirmed.

Good info there, and something I plan on doing with my NL in the future. But stroked to 418. Blocks are supposedly good for 800hp, which is considerably more than a 302 block which would probably split at half that eventually.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:39 pm 
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I'll add some stuff,
I wouldn't use any MSD stuff.
I have modified 5.0 pacemakers to fit which is pretty involved but it is doable and cheaper than getting a cutom set.
Xr-Y type pacemaker 351w headers will fit if you use a RH starter type bellhousing. These are ok for mild 351's because they're still only 1 5/8" primaries.
You can use the stock 351 truck lower with an adapter from BC broncos($99) to allow a stock 5.0HO upper to be used. This will get you going on a low cost mild 351 and it will clear the bonnet. The Edelbrock performer 5.8 will also clear the bonnet.
You need a 28oz 164T flexplate if using a BTR auto.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:19 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Power: 274 rwkw

Location: Sydney Australia
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Thanks Pete, your input is always welcome and I wouldn't have it running now if it wasn't for your input
Brett

 

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The TerrosistGhia, EF Ghia 351 EFI 5 Speed.
Millennium Falcon, Sleeper EL DOHC 6 Speed Manual EFI LPG
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:51 pm 
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My pleasure Brett.
Here's a pic of the BC Broncos HO upper adapter that I used on my Range rover...

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:26 pm 
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Btw, For those that want to fit an F-series 351 into their EA-D or EL 4.0L Falcon, engine management wise, it's exceedingly easy, (EF 4.0's are not so easy because of their 104pin EECV).
You can use your six cyl harness with minimal mods to fit the V8 and plug the Speed Density truck EEC straight in. This will be fine for stock cammed 351's and it's a great way to get monster torque for not much money and you'll be very surprised by the excellent fuel economy.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:53 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Do the 302W sump and oil pickup fit the 351? Why couldnt you use stock EB/EL EEC-IV with a J3?

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:19 pm 
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No and No Gab.
I don't know that enough of the code is cracked to allow a 4.0 EEC to be reconfigured to run 8cyls. For ease of conversion the F-series EEC would be the better way to go...no calibration to be done.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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XR9UTE wrote:
No and No Gab.
I don't know that enough of the code is cracked to allow a 4.0 EEC to be reconfigured to run 8cyls. For ease of conversion the F-series EEC would be the better way to go...no calibration to be done.


I was thinking of the 5.0i EEC-V though, like an XR8 Computer or similar.

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:04 am 
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Yes that's a given Gab,
If you already have a V8 car you don't need to run the Truck EEC.
I was talking about guys who have a poxy six cylinder that want to do the conversion without actually having to obtain an E-series V8 harness.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:26 am 
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Gab1 wrote:
Do the 302W sump and oil pickup fit the 351? Why couldnt you use stock EB/EL EEC-IV with a J3?

Gab


351 has bigger mains which means a 302 sump won't fit over them i think. A standard XW 351W sump fits but you need to get the dipstick fitting welded in the side of it.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:31 am 
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351 top 302 bottom....

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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:27 am 
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Is it legal to put a 351w in my ef series 2 1996 XR8 falcon and if not how can I make it legal I thought emissions might be a problem and brakes...also I plan to buy a 351w short block reconditioned from somewhere and put on these parts I bought for my 302w which are Air Flow Research 185cc Competition Heads Assembled, ARP Head Bolts, Trickflow EFI upper and lower manifold revs to 6000rpm the manifold, comp cams hydraulic roller lifters and comp cams hydraulic roller cam that I asked summit racing in the USA to be the biggest cam to go with a 302w bottom end 70mm throttle bottle bbk, double row timing chain, fuel pressure regulator and I have pacemaker extractors on my 302w that I want to bolt onto the 351w, xr9ute said he modified them where can I get mine modified I live in Sydney. I am wondering can I use most of these parts I know I will have to change the lower manifold for the 351 but thats cheap enough I think from summit...will these parts be up to the job?

Thanks
Cliff
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:21 am 
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Hi Cliff,
There are a few legal ones here in WA but as long as yours is tested it should do-able.
Brakes are ok.
As for your parts; Heads are good, Head bolts no good, Intake no good, If you use a non-roller block;Cam only good if you use link-bar type lifters and not the factory type you will have. In any case if it's a big stick you'll blow your emissions test anyway. If you want to retain factory type lifters in a non-roller 351 block you'll need a reduced base circle cam(if it's from comp make sure you get a -9 core which is steel not a -8 core which is austempered iron and s**t) You'll need a camshaft with 114 plus degrees of Lobe separation to have a hope of passing a test. If you get an F4, roller type 351 block you'll be able to use all the stock 5.0 type camshaft components.
T-body will work, timing chain may work and fuel reg will work.
Don't know anyone in Sydney who would mod the headers...they'd probably want to start from scratch. Trick flow only do an R-series lower for the 351 which is not compatible with your street heat upper intake. If I were you I'd take the oportunity to buy an Edlebrock RPM2 for the 351 which, they now make...much better intake in performance and quality.
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 Post subject: Re: How to fit a 351EFI Windsor into an E series
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Thanks Xr9ute... I am thinking I should sell the parts instead and have a 351w motor built by Bennett Racing in America and shipped here. They ship world wide but I don't know about the tax on something like that or the cost of shipping...Can I get the motor built with a mild cam for passing emissions and then swap it out for a big cam and get away with it? Will that work engine wise even if it runs like a dog just till it passes emissions and then swap it...And what about if I get the 351 stroked to 434 or 408 would it still pass emissions. I also don't know where I am going to get 351 emissions equipment or will the emissions equipment in my car for the 302w do the job? Any idea where to sell my parts by the way? I tried eBay once but I asked $5000 for them and didn't get a single bid or person interested...but that's how much it cost me to buy them from the usa and ship them with a J3 quarter-horse chip...maybe I would be better to build a 347 but the 302w block is not very strong is there a cheaper aftermarket option then dart I know of Ford SVO Blocks but how strong are they and are they expensive? I really wanted a 351 though. Don't know what to do.
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