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Making torque lower in the revs from a 351? 

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:54 pm 
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Thats a big ask for a small block, of any description. Seems you need a diesel in that vehicle mate. PLENTY of options on the diesel front.

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:40 pm 
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Try swapping the cleveland for a windsor. Clevlands inlet ports and valves are to large to make good bottem end torque. Can't think of much worse for bottem end torque, then a Cleveland. Try 351 windsor with stock heads or e7's (injected 5 liter heads) or injected 5 liter engine has very good bottem end torque with ho inlet . Ford used 302 windsor in trucks and busses to about 12 ton in the seventies. Clevelands are a detuned version of a nascar engine, the opposite of what you want in a truck.
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:22 pm 
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chipyyyy wrote:
Try swapping the cleveland for a windsor. Clevlands inlet ports and valves are to large to make good bottem end torque. Can't think of much worse for bottem end torque, then a Cleveland. Try 351 windsor with stock heads or e7's (injected 5 liter heads) or injected 5 liter engine has very good bottem end torque with ho inlet . Ford used 302 windsor in trucks and busses to about 12 ton in the seventies. Clevelands are a detuned version of a nascar engine, the opposite of what you want in a truck.

I must agree I have had a gvm (gross vehicle mass) with my f150 of 7 ton. the 351 windsor loved it.
You would need a twin plate 11" clutch and the heaviest flywheel you can find for that kind of weight.

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:49 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Maybe some common sense would be a start GAS will make good power with the correct compression ratio camshaft and you will need good ignition system to burn it otherwise you will be wastin your time as for a single plane manifold you stated that you are not revving it above 5000 so keep the std 1 or find a edelbroke performer or similar. The single plane only really become a benefit above 3000rpm were the dual plane suffers. The camshaft experts are there for a reason use them they have experience and knowledge beyond any pub talk. The std closed chamber heads will be fine as long as they have inserts in the exhuast seats simple bowl work and 4V exhuast valves are great it will help wit gettin the gas out at low speeds 4-2-1 extractors are a must u are tryin to maximise all the low end power not REV ITS TITS OFF.
Gearing is probably your next benefit matched with your tyre size.
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:47 pm 
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Tom Davey wrote:
Thats a big ask for a small block, of any description. Seems you need a diesel in that vehicle mate. PLENTY of options on the diesel front.


My thought too, a big diesel, like the 7.3 litre Power Stroke. It'll pull 11 tons all day. Or if money isn't an option, a new CAT engine, like a C13 ACERT.
I remember working on an old 66' model F600, and it was the 300 cube 6 cylinder engine in it.

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:20 pm 
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Thanks for the input.

The only reason I was thinking of a single plane manifold was because ppl like gas research recomend a single due to gas taking up more volume than petrol and singles have a larger volume than stockers.

The flywheel and clutch will be the stock t4100 setup, weighs around 5-7kg more than a cleveland item.

I have inquired about cams from the makers but have yet to hear back from them.

Unfortunatly money is a option, its a hurdle too. A second hand diesel suitable for this thing costs from around $5,000 up.

Stroker kits from as low as $1300, but with the pistons having to travel a much longer distance per revolution, I dont know how the cleveland will handle this in a sustained situation, ie 14 hours a day for 3-4 days per week.

I can put the original diff back in, which will see it reving at 3,300rpm at 100kph, but im sure the 351 wont handle this for long.
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:39 pm 
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Um how much money are you willing to spend? It seems like you can barely afford the machining expenses at the moment.
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:48 pm 
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Working at engineering shop helps :) and my time is free. Not that I have all that much, all the work is being done at night ofter closing. So far Id say 300 plus hours have gon in so far.
Chassis is lenghtened, bob tail rear, rear lift, trailer is being made from the chassis from a second truck. Chassis has been widened where the engine will go, second front steering axil has been fitted. Dual cab is still to go on from donor truck.
Still have the decks, top and bottom to make.

Im looking at spending around $600-700 on a cam, second hand inlet and exhaust plus gaskets.
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:28 am 
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3300rpm is nothing for a cleveland. I think you'll actually need some rpm to keep the power up. A steel 3.85" stroke Scat crank and H-beams will also be fine in a low rpm application...hell their fine in a high rpm application!
You'll be able to get a comp retro hyd roller for less than that money including 5.0 roller lifters which are still around $100 U.S. to buy new.
A Weiand x-cellerator is about the best low cost 2V single plane around. If you mean't $600-$700 on all of that stuff you haven't got much hope.
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Yeah the powerstroke is an Inter with Ford injection system and a bloody big turbo. They certainly go well. But the yanks have a V10 as well in the Effies. Cant see any of these options very economical. Maybe a 6 cylinder Cummins or even a Jap engine would be suitable for the application.

 

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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:17 pm 
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I'm pretty sure my cam was Crow 21771

Torque cam for towing and LPG
vehicles.

I used this with dual plane 2V manifold running LPG through 2V heads fitted with 4V valves and bronze guides and hardened seats. The cam was dialed in properly and given an extra 2 degrees advance on the cam timing and it was a torque monster. It went so well with its 2.75 diff that the guy I sold it to in the states wanted to know who built the motor. I also altered the distributor to run a total advance of 15 degrees. It was set at 18 degrees at idle and advanced to a max of 33 degrees hooked up with the electronic dwell pointless conversion. Was in a car weighing in at around 2000kg and left most everything else wanting in the sheer grunt department. hope this helps
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:39 pm 
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Thats the cam they recommend.
Quote:
The cam we recommend for the 351 is part number 21771 and lifters
HT900-16. Use valves springs 7738-16 Price of cam is $234, lifters $98
and springs $106 inc gst

Apparently you have to use firmer springs with this cam. So that would leave me around $400 for second hand inlet and exhaust.
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