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 Post subject: stroker pinging?
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:31 pm 
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I have just done a v8 conversion on my EB fairmont wagon and now having issues with starting it, it has spark, the timing is correct, (checked and double checked), I have replaced the fuel pump with a new unit. so after all of that I got a set of noid testers to check for injector pulse and discover it doesn't have any can anyone suggest what could be causing this, I have tested the common wire and has voltage there just appears to be no earth triggering, I have two ECU and have changed both over, can someone shed some light on where I should be looking? cheers.

 

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Last edited by sexyr6 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Check your Smartlock module, Smartlock shuts down the injector pulse.
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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:54 pm 
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the car is a non smartlock model but in saying that, it is running a smartlock engine management loom but that is connected to a non smartlock ECU.

 

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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:04 pm 
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i would start by checing if the injecter output at the ecu is pulsing, if it has a pulse at the ecu look at the engine loom plug..
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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:49 pm 
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If your running a smartlock loom its likely that smartlock isnt there to undisable some power to the injectors.

Smartlock works on a number of levels :
Starter Motor goes through it.
I believe another Circuit goes through it (possibly Injector power)
and the ECU requires smartlock signal or it doesnt give anything on injectors

You could also check the Distributor connections - the ECU gets Injection timing signals from the Distributor. You havent just left it or the coil disconnected have you?

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:54 pm 
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dizzy is a new MSD unit, and to double check this I have also fitted two standatd type dizzys all with the same result. the ECU is also a non smartlock unit. and of cause the enging turns over and has spark.

 

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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Where did you test the common voltage? - at the ECU Side of the salt and peper shakers, or the engine side? - theyre notorious for not being right.

Have you checked your ECU Earth? - the one on the engine is only for the O2 sensors. The one on the ECU Mount is only a signal earth. They earth in the harness, so That would normally be up the top of the dashboard in line with the demisters roughly in front of the cluster?

The other thing Im thinking is perhaps a fuse but I think youve really complicated things by using a smartlock harness. Your best bet is to hit the schematics and see whats not connected right

I take it youve also tried another ecu.

You did mention that its getting spark ok - but the TFI Units have a failsafe mode where if it cant see the ECU signal (because its broken either to the ECU, or from the ECU) then they will automatically fire on Dizzy signal.
THat means that even though your getting spark, youve got no proof that your getting any tach signal to the ECU.

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:10 pm 
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I tested the common voltage at the injector plug. i'll have a look at the ECU earth, but the dash was never removed so it hasn't been tampered with. should be ok.

the dash harness is still the original one, only the engine management loom is smartlock, when I plugged the two plugs together that connected the engine management to the dash loom there was only one wire that did not match up, I just assumed it was the smartlock signal wire, IIRC it was green, I only went with the smartlock loom because i'm going to upgrade the dash loom to smartlock aswell.

 

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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Is the i6 dash harness compatible with the 8?

If were talking an EB/D, you might have an earth lug in the harness that is supposed to be screwed to the dash retaining bolt on the passenger side, above the ECU?

Otherwise Im all out of options. I wouldnt have thought the Dash harnesses were the same(they might be) - my experiences have all been EB I6 -> i6, EF I6 -> AU 6, EB -> TE50 engine, XF -> NC 5.0 non smartlock, and EL i6 -> 5.0. I hadnt thought too much about this.

Take a really good look at your Dizzy connections though. Its unlikely that all 8 injector drivers would fail at the same time, so that supports more theory that its not getting any tach signal, or that you might in fact have the smartlock ECU.

Did you use the I6 engine harness and modify it for V8 operation?
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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:24 pm 
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the conversion came from a running car, I used the engine bay loom and engine management loom from the donor car, and what I did with the donor car was converted it back to a 6cyl, and all I did was replace the engine bay loom and engine management loom with 6cyl harnesses plug and play I had no issues with it at all. that car runs and drives fine.

 

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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:30 pm 
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OK. A few more questions popped up :
1. You took a running V8, and converted it back to i6, and it worked. Great - so Im guessing that was a non-smartlock ECU on a non-smartlock Harness.
2. Youve stated you checked and re-checked the timing, but timing is set with the engine in diagnostics mode, running (where the ECU holds it to I think 30 degrees from memory). Im curious how it was set, but that doesnt mean its impossible.

Still havent responded to the most important line of thought here : Your ECU will not give Injector pulses without a tach signal. Yes, injector drivers can fail, but there are 8 individual ones, and all 8 failing is well, completely out of line.

As described previously, the fact you have spark is irrelevant - thats a fail-safe built into the TFI Modules that can carry that. The Fuel pump - will always prime when you turn the key to on. Theres not a lot of other things that will just outright stop all of your Injectors from having a signal.

On an AU you can be missing the cam sync sensor and it will run, but on an E Series its more critical
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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:49 pm 
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OMFG!! i cant believe what I have done! the non smartlock ECU that I had was in fact a bloody 6cyl ECU! I must have picked it up by mistake, I just located the proper V8 non smartlock ECU hooked it up and now has an injector pulse! mate I cant thank you enough if it wasn't for your interest I probably would have continued on this path for quite some time. cheers mate your a legend! :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Turn the ignition on and measure that you have VPWR(+12V) at the red wire on your injector connectors? If not you have a problem with your EEC Main power relay.
Your EEC needs a PIP signal before it will fire the injectors, a tacho signal itself is not required. Check you have a PIP signal at your EEC when cranking.
Pre smartlock EEC's have what's called IDM(Ignition Diagnostic Monitor) at pin 4. Whereas Smartlock use this as the input from the Smartlock module. You need a 22K resistor inline when using it as an IDM from the negative side of the coil. However it will not stop you from starting the engine.
Do you know for sure that you have a non-Smartlock EEC? What's the catch code?
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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:05 pm 
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non smartlock ECU is 1DEA and the smartlock one is 1DEC, but all good now read my last post :P

 

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 Post subject: Re: injector pulse Issues
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:13 am 
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I think I have 1DCC in my 5.0 (non smartlock).

Good to know youve got it sorted - lucky youve not killed anything.

Cheers

Nigel
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