Fordmods Logo

Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed... 

 

Page 2 of 3 [ 31 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:32 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 41

Posts: 117

Joined: 16th Apr 2005

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: ED Fairmont Ghia 5.0L

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

I am going to try gapping the plugs 25 thou, after trying a few more things. Processing my eliminations one by one is taking a bit of time.
The plugs i have are quite cold too (CHAMPION RC9YX) so I will have a look at what they look like when I pull them out.
http://www.championsparkplugs.com/gloss ... ?imgID=722

I was wondering what spark blow out feels like, as I would think it would be like reaching a rev limit kind of feeling, hanging around the same rev that it blows out at (probably not as smooth as a soft touch limit though), not dropping from 5000rpm to below 3600rpm and hanging until i get my foot of it like mine does.

If my intake temps are hot, which they would be, my EEC map might be pulling 'a lot' of timing, which is what it kind of feels like.
I’m going to back my timing right off and start again to see what the effects are with each incremental change, and see what lower boost does.

Could take a while do get to the bottom of this.

 

_________________

ED Fairmont Ghia.
306ci, Pro-m 80 MAF & #42inj, Kirban AFPR, Walbro 255LPH intank & inline, BBK 70mm, Ported Edelbrock #60399, Ported Explorer, Crane 2031 & YT1.72, MSD 6AL, paciemaker tri-y, 2.5" cats into single 3". H/D stall. 3.45 lsd, Powerdyne XB1A.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:29 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 41

Posts: 117

Joined: 16th Apr 2005

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: ED Fairmont Ghia 5.0L

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

Ok, bipassed the MSD, and Changed the coil.
Replaced the fuel filter, Checked the Bypass valve vac line.

A video of my RPM/Speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOXU-e2eWl0

Notice the drop off and hang at 3200, before i get off it.

A video of the recorded A/F ratios on that run...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0gid340SFw

The right bank was a little rich, but it does the same thing when both sides are 11.3/1

If i get off it slowly, it still hangs till i get to about half throtle, then i can get on it again...

Still have things to check, but y'all might get a better feel for whats happening with the clips.
Cheers.

 

_________________

ED Fairmont Ghia.
306ci, Pro-m 80 MAF & #42inj, Kirban AFPR, Walbro 255LPH intank & inline, BBK 70mm, Ported Edelbrock #60399, Ported Explorer, Crane 2031 & YT1.72, MSD 6AL, paciemaker tri-y, 2.5" cats into single 3". H/D stall. 3.45 lsd, Powerdyne XB1A.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:19 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

I wish the sound were better on that clip.
Have you got a boost gauge?
Are those wide band O2's your looking at because if it's narrow band I don't hold much stock in those readings.
Looking at the "WOT spark vs RPM" function the EEC pulls out 4 degrees at temps over 180F. Can you log ACT voltage or at least measure the voltage when it's happening?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:50 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 41

Posts: 117

Joined: 16th Apr 2005

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: ED Fairmont Ghia 5.0L

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

Yeah they are wide band 02s, one on each side.
I will see if i can back probe the ACT and take footage of the multi meter.
Will have another go improving the sound.
Was thinking about the relationship between spark and ACT readings. I read that over about 100deg, 4 deg of timing gets pulled.
this run was at 31deg outside temp, so it would be hot leaving the blower at 48-50krpm.
I have water injection set up, but havent used it yet.

 

_________________

ED Fairmont Ghia.
306ci, Pro-m 80 MAF & #42inj, Kirban AFPR, Walbro 255LPH intank & inline, BBK 70mm, Ported Edelbrock #60399, Ported Explorer, Crane 2031 & YT1.72, MSD 6AL, paciemaker tri-y, 2.5" cats into single 3". H/D stall. 3.45 lsd, Powerdyne XB1A.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:56 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

dodgie wrote:
I read that over about 100deg, 4 deg of timing gets pulled.


Yeah in my previous post :lol:
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:54 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 41

Posts: 117

Joined: 16th Apr 2005

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: ED Fairmont Ghia 5.0L

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

Haha, I actually meant I read it somewhere else too that day, I did write that reply in a hurry, but yeah it does explain a lot.
I have a boost gauge in the engine bay, but also have one on the water injection controller (in the car), which i haven’t used yet.

I remember my tuner saying he thought i was having belt slip (before my old blower died), as the power on the graph dropped off quite suddenly, though it was at a higher rpm, as the blower was spinning slower. That was a hot day, with the same pulley I’m using now but with the lower internal gear ratio of the old blower.

I always thought it felt like the timing suddenly got pulled when it does this, and the hang at 34/3600 rpm could be the EEC coming out of open loop and into closed loop (@3.7volts), allowing it to come alive again when the accelerator is closed just before half way.

So looks like the intake temps are the issue...
I’m going to change the blower pulley and see what happens.
Of course i really need to 'prove' this is the issue, but it does seem the most likely at the moment.

Seems like my options now would be either...
*lower the boost (which i don’t really want to do, but will if i have to... :cry: )
*use my water injection (which was meant to be a safe guard not a tuning tool)
*or use a resistor to change the ACT output (Think I will give that a miss).
*see if it can be tuned out with a J3 chip, which it did have but not tuned with this in mind (or try to use the tweecer RT I could never get to work, probably worth another thread to sort that).

I wonder if anyone else has had these symptoms, with superchargers or turbos and if a tune was their fix...?

 

_________________

ED Fairmont Ghia.
306ci, Pro-m 80 MAF & #42inj, Kirban AFPR, Walbro 255LPH intank & inline, BBK 70mm, Ported Edelbrock #60399, Ported Explorer, Crane 2031 & YT1.72, MSD 6AL, paciemaker tri-y, 2.5" cats into single 3". H/D stall. 3.45 lsd, Powerdyne XB1A.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:37 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 39

Posts: 1886

Joined: 26th Nov 2006

Gallery: 7 images

Ride: EL XR8, '08 Mondeo XR5t

Power: 205 rwkw

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

What's the catchcode on your eec? If it's compatible, what I'd recommend you do is purchase yourself a Moates Quarterhorse from www.moates.net then go to eecanalyzer.net and download, then register Binary Editor. Once you have that, I can point you in the right direction to get the 2DCA strategy which will allow you to datalog everything that's going on within the EEC. You'll be able to see what your ACTs, ECTs, timing, throttle position and MAF are all doing which should help expediate the process of elimination.

I still think this could be MAF related. Are you able to see the hotwires when you remove the MAF, or can you remove the electronics to have a closer look. Only recently on the other Ford Forum, there was a case very similar to this (I actually thought it was you as the original posts went up around the same time) and his turned out to be a damaged hotwire. Swapped the MAF out and no more problems.

 

_________________

Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20

When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:39 am 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 41

Posts: 117

Joined: 16th Apr 2005

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: ED Fairmont Ghia 5.0L

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

I have a 3DFA, which I’m sure is tweecer compatible, I just couldn’t get the RT side of things to respond, though i could still get the bin out of it.
I would like to give the tweecer another go, as I have had it sitting here not doing anything... But then again I might just sell it and get a Moates Quarterhorse if I don’t have any luck, and I’m not keen on paying for a custom tune on my J3 chip every time i make a change.

My MAF is in the fender, and I’m not sure i would be able to see the wire, but it wouldn’t be too difficult to pull out the electronics.
I will have a look at that thread and see what happened there. I would think there would be other symptoms if it were a MAF related issue.

 

_________________

ED Fairmont Ghia.
306ci, Pro-m 80 MAF & #42inj, Kirban AFPR, Walbro 255LPH intank & inline, BBK 70mm, Ported Edelbrock #60399, Ported Explorer, Crane 2031 & YT1.72, MSD 6AL, paciemaker tri-y, 2.5" cats into single 3". H/D stall. 3.45 lsd, Powerdyne XB1A.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:39 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 41

Posts: 117

Joined: 16th Apr 2005

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: ED Fairmont Ghia 5.0L

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

I just swapped the 2.5" pulley for a 2.95" pulley.
The car pulled through past 5k rpm, and cleanly changed into third and kept pulling... :)
So I would think it must have been the intake temps being too hot.
It even felt a bit stronger, probably because timing wasn't being pulled as much.

Now what to do...

 

_________________

ED Fairmont Ghia.
306ci, Pro-m 80 MAF & #42inj, Kirban AFPR, Walbro 255LPH intank & inline, BBK 70mm, Ported Edelbrock #60399, Ported Explorer, Crane 2031 & YT1.72, MSD 6AL, paciemaker tri-y, 2.5" cats into single 3". H/D stall. 3.45 lsd, Powerdyne XB1A.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:52 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 38

Posts: 1319

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: 66 Coupe

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

possibly maxing out the maf, so the ecu is switching to a limp mode strategy, intake temps will pull timing and fuel, but wouldnt cause it to drop back that many rpm.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:58 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Could be belt slip...larger pulley easier to drive.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 39

Posts: 1886

Joined: 26th Nov 2006

Gallery: 7 images

Ride: EL XR8, '08 Mondeo XR5t

Power: 205 rwkw

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

dodgie wrote:
I have a 3DFA, which I’m sure is tweecer compatible, I just couldn’t get the RT side of things to respond, though i could still get the bin out of it.
I would like to give the tweecer another go, as I have had it sitting here not doing anything... But then again I might just sell it and get a Moates Quarterhorse if I don’t have any luck, and I’m not keen on paying for a custom tune on my J3 chip every time i make a change.

My MAF is in the fender, and I’m not sure i would be able to see the wire, but it wouldn’t be too difficult to pull out the electronics.
I will have a look at that thread and see what happened there. I would think there would be other symptoms if it were a MAF related issue.


Yep, 3DFA is compatible with the Tweecer. It'll run off the 2DDA (or 2DCA, whichever is in the list) strategy. Datalogging should work with it in CalCon, as I know of a couple of people who've had it working.

You could probably find a buyer for the RT and still have change after buying a QH. You can tune on-the-fly with the QH, so don't need to switch off and on again after writing the tune as you do with the Tweecer. If you do want to go ahead with the Tweecer though, I'd strongly recommend using Binary Editor still, as it's a much easier program to use and the strategy available has so much more tunability than what's available in CalEdit.

It sounds to me like you may have been pegging your MAF also. Can you splice into the maf wires in the harness above the EEC and get a multimeter on there or something, so you can see how many volts it's making when you're over 5000rpm? *I'd recommend having a passenger holding and reading it for you*

 

_________________

Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20

When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:42 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 41

Posts: 117

Joined: 16th Apr 2005

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: ED Fairmont Ghia 5.0L

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

I’m using a Pro-M 80 MAF (for #42 injectors), so unless there is something wrong with it, which I have no other indication that there is, I wouldn't think I’m pegging it out. If anything it might be a bit too big.

The 2.5 pulley was a reichard racing ultra-grip 8 rib pulley with heaps of wrap around it, so don't think it was going to slip.

I still think its the intake temps pulling the timing out in open loop/WOT, as it does feel like this is what’s happening, but it seems like its holding the timing reduction until i get off the foot and back into closed loop.
I read that the A9L pulls 6 deg of timing when ACTs get too hot.
http://fordfuelinjection.com/files/EECI ... rkings.pdf
If this is a safety feature it may not reintroduce the timing again until I get back into closed loop, as in a limp home strategy based off ACTs...Just a thought.

I will see if i can get some readings from the MAF and the ACT with a meter, and get someone to record the readings with my phone.
I'm going to have another go at getting this tweecer working though, I’m sure the problem I'm having with it is something simple, but might start another thread to trouble shoot if i don’t have any luck.

 

_________________

ED Fairmont Ghia.
306ci, Pro-m 80 MAF & #42inj, Kirban AFPR, Walbro 255LPH intank & inline, BBK 70mm, Ported Edelbrock #60399, Ported Explorer, Crane 2031 & YT1.72, MSD 6AL, paciemaker tri-y, 2.5" cats into single 3". H/D stall. 3.45 lsd, Powerdyne XB1A.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:19 am 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Don't discount the pulley just because "it shouldn't slip", it still maybe slipping. Run it on a dyno and hit it with a timing light...it's an easy way to see slippage and don't just look at the blower pulley...I've seen crank pulley slip too.
Even if you max the MAF( It's unlikely with a Pro-M 80) it will not limit the power, ie fuel is not cut if you max it.
Yep A9L pulls 6 aussie EEC's pull 4.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sudden power loss at 5000 rpm. Got me stuffed...
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1140

Joined: 27th Feb 2005

Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont

Location: T.I. Performance HQ
VIC, Australia

dodgie wrote:
... and I’m not keen on paying for a custom tune on my J3 chip every time i make a change.

If you were interested in keeping the J3, you could buy yourself a programmer (for almost the same price as a retune) so you can alter the tune yourself. Selling the Tweecer would cover this pretty easily and be cheaper than the QH. Just a suggestion :)

I had a similar power loss at high rpm with a centri blower. It was showing lean which at first I thought was a symptom due to spark blowout. It turned out to be the cause, as my fuel pump was not flowing enough to support the volume required by the injectors at this load.

Jase
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 2 of 3  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:00 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names