Fordmods Logo

Turbo or blower on 351c 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: Turbo or blower on 351c
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 10:23 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 42

Posts: 516

Joined: 7th Mar 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: -74 XB Coupe

Location: raymond Terrace
NSW, Australia

im thinkin about goin the forced induction route on my coupe but was after any advice about which way to go , the engine is currently as follows:

-Striaght LPG via sprintgas duel convertor system
-780 holley modified to run straight gas ( floats and bowl etc removed throats bored out)
-Edlebrock performer manifold
- 302 heads ported and polished
- mild cam ( not sure of the specs)
- bottom end rebuilt about 2-3 years ago compression tested last year about 165psi avg on each cylinder
-extractors and duel exhaust
-electronic ignition ( rebuilt bosche )

what i really wanna find out is which way to go with it , basically how much $$$ for the amount of power increase, drivability ( the car is still gonna be a daily driver) and id prob like to keep it under the hood where possible to prevent from attracting the wrong kind of attention

 

_________________

2006 BF MkII FPV F6 TYPHOON 6sp Manual
Nizpro Injectors, Nizpro Polished Stage 2+ cooler,
X-force 4"dump pipe & 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, Walbro fuel pump
Tunning by BlackTrack Performance.
507.1 RwHp

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:23 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 64

Posts: 3552

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

Use one of these or one like it...
http://www.superiorairflow.com/extreme_velocity.htm

Carb like this...http://www.superiorairflow.com/carb_sho ... retors.htm

And a T70 P trim
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/sho ... adid=38235

Intercooler, cold pipeing \ exhaust manifold etc
And hang on....

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 9453

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Fordrunner 5.0 Turbo

Location: Wollongong
NSW, Australia

Yep that is by far the best way to go especially for LPG as your fuel system is already set up. That GT45 sounds appealing. Are those prices in US dollars.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 64

Posts: 3552

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

xcabbi wrote:
Yep that is by far the best way to go especially for LPG as your fuel system is already set up. That GT45 sounds appealing. Are those prices in US dollars.


Yes U.S $
But consider how much they are here?
I bought two hybrid T3's over 630 h.p each for less than one turbo here..Here's another place..Fedex is $200.00...To NSW..
If you keep to older style they are far cheaper..But then??
Spool, efficiancy etc comes into it also....
http://www.pagparts.com/perfpts1.asp?pprd=turbochargers

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 42

Posts: 516

Joined: 7th Mar 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: -74 XB Coupe

Location: raymond Terrace
NSW, Australia

I have had some people suggets using one of the underbonnet blower kits( eg B&M) as they require little engine mods and yey give better low rev power as opposed to a turbo , i think they go for around $5000, any one know how they compare to a turbo set up .. as in $$$ drivability etc??

 

_________________

2006 BF MkII FPV F6 TYPHOON 6sp Manual
Nizpro Injectors, Nizpro Polished Stage 2+ cooler,
X-force 4"dump pipe & 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, Walbro fuel pump
Tunning by BlackTrack Performance.
507.1 RwHp

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:59 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 64

Posts: 3552

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

With lower power gains there is obviously less engine tweeking to do...
BTW adding a turbo as with blower doesn't make the engine untractable..On an engine of this size there is vertually no lag...Infact some lag in prefered.So you can drive on no boost and traction issues...
Maybe if you are silly enough to fit two GT45's with 1.30 A.R's you might...But you can't have 1800 h.p and have power at 700 rpm on any engine, blower or turbo...If it was built sensibly for 5/600 h.p it will be very tractable 700 to 6.000 rpm.... Besides with these capacity engines will spin tyres with the torque they have without boost...

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:15 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 42

Posts: 516

Joined: 7th Mar 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: -74 XB Coupe

Location: raymond Terrace
NSW, Australia

ive come to realise that i know f**k all about turbos :lol:

 

_________________

2006 BF MkII FPV F6 TYPHOON 6sp Manual
Nizpro Injectors, Nizpro Polished Stage 2+ cooler,
X-force 4"dump pipe & 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, Walbro fuel pump
Tunning by BlackTrack Performance.
507.1 RwHp

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 6168

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

well if ya go turbo..i guess you will learn :P

 

_________________

Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:36 am 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

If you go positive displacement use a screw type blower like a Whipplecharger 2600 or an Autorotor(Kenne Bell)2200 at least. Rootes blowers are too inefficient...they pulse the air charge and heat it up too much.
You'll need some dished pistons or O/C heads.

http://www.proficientperformance.com/wh ... argers.php

Pete.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:37 am 
Stock as a Rock
Offline

Posts: 102

Joined: 30th Apr 2005

Location: ACT
ACT, Australia

do you know what comp ratio you are at now?

what is that sprint gas system rated at? I am unfamiliar with it.

How much power do you want, is the bottom end stock?

running that T70 would be sweet and they are very good value especially with that group buy, Joe is very good to deal with, I just bought stuff from him.

Word of warning, LPG tends to heat turbos up heaps, a few people I spoke to about turbo LPG said that they had failures ultil they went to a high $$$ BB turbo, keep that in mind, i am sure that a plain bushed turbo would be fine for street use, but people have fried them at the track and since gone to a GT garret turbo with much better results and longevity(but cost is huge).

I like turbo's but being blown is good too. A 351 with 9 to1 comp good ported heads especially the exhaust, running blow thru GRA system and about 12psi non intercooled from a blower will net you about 350RWHP if your gas system and motor are up to it. ADD intercooler and more psi and you get more than that.

The restriction is always going to be the LPG system so work around what you have otherwise you will just be chasing your a***. Big power from LPG means twin GRA setup, twin tanks or at least twin outlets on one tank, it gets expensive.

I know a lot about LPG turbo setups and am in the middle of building mine so any questions just ask.

The benefit of running blow thru is it increases the output of any given t/b or in our case gas mixer, so it is an advantage to run blow thru because essentially you get more LPG out of it and can make more power, running suck thru like those B/M kits do, the fuel system can easily become a restriction.

Later
Charles

If you go to a capa style blower or a turbo you will have some fabricating to do either way, work out what you want and can afford(thats the main thing).
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 11:24 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 596

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 11 images

Ride: BA mkII XR8

Location: NEWCASTLE
NSW, Australia

Have you considdered the durability of the clevo block, It wont do to use just any block (unless you are lucky enough to have a good 1)
to use forced induction on a clevo you must first get ur block Xrayed for core shift, wall thickness, cracks etc. The best clevo blocks are obviously the XE casting nascar type with thick wall castings. But if you decide to use an ordinary block don't go over .020'' oversize.
I am currently in the process of helping a mate build a 406cui ,671 assisted clevo, we have chosen the 9.5'' SVO alloy block with a 4.040'' lunati crank destrocked for chev rods & lowering the comp ratio to 8.4:1.
Any clevo head is up to the task as you will require custom pistons to get the desired comp ratio, we are looking at producing 600hp at the flywheel, but even with a blower this will be a stout engine.
think about it if you are going to daily drive the beast, a 400hp clevo is a lot cheaper! & driveable

 

_________________

Image
IF YOU HAVE IT UNDER CONTROL
YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POWER!!!
Detroit 8V71 for sale, taking offers

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 1:13 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 64

Posts: 3552

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

If alittle 5.0 windsor is safe to 450 / 500 fwhp still with std rotating assembly...I would assume a Clevo would handle up to 700 h.p...Actually any more than 550h.p is tyre shreding for street mill anyway..Imagine you are getting 350/ 400 h.p at 3000 rpm not at peek rpm as in n/a....
Run pistons that can run tight clearances and you'll be fine..

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 1:28 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 596

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 11 images

Ride: BA mkII XR8

Location: NEWCASTLE
NSW, Australia

EBXR8380 wrote:
If alittle 5.0 windsor is safe to 450 / 500 fwhp still with std rotating assembly...I would assume a Clevo would handle up to 700 h.p...Actually any more than 550h.p is tyre shreding for street mill anyway..Imagine you are getting 350/ 400 h.p at 3000 rpm not at peek rpm as in n/a....
Run pistons that can run tight clearances and you'll be fine..

you haven't built a high power clevo, have you? they have a lot of problems splitting bores due to the thin wall castings, if you bore one out more than .030'' you will have troubles keeping it together with more than 350hp
why do you think the racers used "nascar" & XE casting blocks?
why do you think the clevo is so under rated?
sure, the rest of a clevo can spin up to 10,000rpm ,but the block suffered a lot of core shift, no s**t! check out the history of her, even the group A falcons used nascar blocks, the rules were even changed to suit them.
the clevo could breath, but the windsor stayed together

 

_________________

Image
IF YOU HAVE IT UNDER CONTROL
YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POWER!!!
Detroit 8V71 for sale, taking offers

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 2:19 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 64

Posts: 3552

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

kenny wrote:
EBXR8380 wrote:
If alittle 5.0 windsor is safe to 450 / 500 fwhp still with std rotating assembly...I would assume a Clevo would handle up to 700 h.p...Actually any more than 550h.p is tyre shreding for street mill anyway..Imagine you are getting 350/ 400 h.p at 3000 rpm not at peek rpm as in n/a....
Run pistons that can run tight clearances and you'll be fine..

you haven't built a high power clevo, have you? they have a lot of problems splitting bores due to the thin wall castings, if you bore one out more than .030'' you will have troubles keeping it together with more than 350hp
why do you think the racers used "nascar" & XE casting blocks?
why do you think the clevo is so under rated?
sure, the rest of a clevo can spin up to 10,000rpm ,but the block suffered a lot of core shift, no s**t! check out the history of her, even the group A falcons used nascar blocks, the rules were even changed to suit them.
the clevo could breath, but the windsor stayed together


Mate I grew up with Clevo's Yes I know all about split bores etc..Mainly U.S blocks..
But that was due to hi rpm and big piston clearance..Besides I did limit power to 700 h.p and what I didn't say under 6000 rpm...
Nascar would use a special block, not production...Yes copied but not the same... A 5.0 .040 overbore would split in half...
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticl ... kblock.php
Thats why I have built a Dart block...

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 3:23 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 596

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 11 images

Ride: BA mkII XR8

Location: NEWCASTLE
NSW, Australia

EBXR8380 wrote:
kenny wrote:
EBXR8380 wrote:
If alittle 5.0 windsor is safe to 450 / 500 fwhp still with std rotating assembly...I would assume a Clevo would handle up to 700 h.p...Actually any more than 550h.p is tyre shreding for street mill anyway..Imagine you are getting 350/ 400 h.p at 3000 rpm not at peek rpm as in n/a....
Run pistons that can run tight clearances and you'll be fine..

you haven't built a high power clevo, have you? they have a lot of problems splitting bores due to the thin wall castings, if you bore one out more than .030'' you will have troubles keeping it together with more than 350hp
why do you think the racers used "nascar" & XE casting blocks?
why do you think the clevo is so under rated?
sure, the rest of a clevo can spin up to 10,000rpm ,but the block suffered a lot of core shift, no s**t! check out the history of her, even the group A falcons used nascar blocks, the rules were even changed to suit them.
the clevo could breath, but the windsor stayed together


Mate I grew up with Clevo's Yes I know all about split bores etc..Mainly U.S blocks..
But that was due to hi rpm and big piston clearance..Besides I did limit power to 700 h.p and what I didn't say under 6000 rpm...
Nascar would use a special block, not production...Yes copied but not the same... A 5.0 .040 overbore would split in half...
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticl ... kblock.php
Thats why I have built a Dart block...

Hey I'm not picking a blue, I love the clevo probably more than you but without the right preperation a clevo has its limits.
the last clevo I built produced 581hp at the flywheel @ 6800rpm with torque you only find in a blown 8, I used an XE casting block for safety, 4V vintage boss heads (2.3'' inlet valves) 4mab crank, FORD 5.7" boss rods & venolia pistons with12.7:1 comp ,these things are a real treat to build but be carefull as most aussie blocks were actually the US block until 1979(the first of the XD's with the smaller dizzy shaft) and siamese sleeving is highly recomended for that safety factor.
cheers kenny:

 

_________________

Image
IF YOU HAVE IT UNDER CONTROL
YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POWER!!!
Detroit 8V71 for sale, taking offers

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:24 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names