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wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute 

 

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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:46 am 
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Agreed, Holden have a pretty good package with the Redline SS-V's.

And Ford have let everyone down again, with no XR8, and an overpriced entry point to a V8 powered anything.

Surely Holden's sales figures would show Ford that people still want V8's. Nothing wrong with the 6T and F6, they're great cars, but people still want V8's. Ford have again (cough XF) made it unavailable to buyers - without coughing up FPV prices.

Surely what is stopping Ford dumping 300kW crate Coyote's into XR8 and G8E packages. I don't see that cutting into FPV's sales/performance

/grumble over

 

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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:09 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
Surely what is stopping Ford dumping 300kW crate Coyote's into XR8 and G8E packages.


Put simply, its recovering the development costs on such an engine and vehicle combination, that will only sell in lowish volumes compared to the rest of the range.

And ultimately, that vehicle wont be around in 3 or so years.

Passion and brand don't build these kind of cars anymore. Money does. And I'll bet Ford can't see a profitable case to invest in these types of cars. Even though they probably fail to realise that it was their previous woeful offerings that caused that failure in their range, and a decent new engine might be the ticket to revive it.

So they have left poor FPV holding the bag. With the V8's being their core business, they had no choice but to go it alone... And probably have no choice but to overprice their cars to repay the $40mil investment in this engine.

If FPV sell V8's at the same rate as 2010 over the next 4 years, each car owes $16k towards the development costs. Would go down to about $9k if they sell in 2009 numbers. A bloody daunting task if you ask me, and almost not finanicially viable.

And its an engine that will probably cease to exist in 3 to 4 years when the platform it fits in is gone, and were all left driving twin turbo eco-boost V6's.

/my take on things
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:25 pm 
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A good point, but the Coyote is already developed, FPV did the work on fitting it into a Falcon and in front of the various transmissions we have. So All Ford need to do is import and bolt them up (surely there will be some tuning work re PCM and DSC etc). But Ford US and FPV have done the hard work.

And yes FPV went out on their own and like with the (5.4) BOSS went and made their own frankenengine when there were perfectly suitable options in the Ford and FordRacing catalogs. Take a leaf out of Holdens book. It's their own fault they spent $40m building a new engine, that is unique to Australia, means owners get stuck with another unsupported engine. While Holden/HSV owners have the entire US based aftermarket available to them.

So yeah, with a $40m investment to pay back (and an uncertain long term future), don't expect any power upgrades anytime soon. While HSV just order the next biggest engine from the GM catalog.

 

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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:02 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
A good point, but the Coyote is already developed, FPV did the work on fitting it into a Falcon and in front of the various transmissions we have. So All Ford need to do is import and bolt them up (surely there will be some tuning work re PCM and DSC etc). But Ford US and FPV have done the hard work.


Sounds possible, but considering Coyote and Miami are nearly 50% different, I'm willing to bet fitting is only a minor issue. Wiring, PCM, emissions, crash testing, durability, etc, etc would probably cost millions. And still have to charge a premium for the engine. All for what, potentially only the 1000 sales the XR8 got in its last 12 months.

Unfortunate to say, but Aussies talk big, but their wallet doesn't follow through most of the times.

data_mine wrote:
It's their own fault they spent $40m building a new engine, that is unique to Australia, means owners get stuck with another unsupported engine.


One thing FPV said at the engine launch thing I went to, that I haven't seen or read anywhere else, is that since they developed that engine, they own the engine and the design. And since the engine is still very early in its life cycle, that if any Ford subsiduary around the world wanted access to this highly desirable engine, they have to buy the rights to use from FPV. Much like Holden/HSV have to pay for the right to use US developed features on their engines here.

Under this crappy One-Ford thing, it would mean that since this is the only supercharged variant of the engine, it would possibly remain the only supercharged version. And if Ford US wanted to put it into the Mustang, they would have to buy it from FPV. Makes for an additional revenue stream and offsets the costs. To me, thats a good thing.
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Where is the 50% difference?
Ford U.S. don't need to buy from Oz. Ford racing already had a supercharger kit for this engine before we did and it's better than the little 1900 thing we have and it's intercooled!
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:41 pm 
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so choice of performance car will be either g6eT or GT.
anythin like a xt with optioned v8 will only be remembered by the current generation and we will say.. well back in the day when there were actual OPTIONS on a car we could get a v8 in almost anythin..

 

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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:42 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
Where is the 50% difference?


I said nearly. My understanding is its basically the block, heads, valve train and sump that are the same as the donor engine. Crank, pistons, rods, valves and manifolds are all custom to suit Miami. And they have a lower compression ratio than the standard engine

XR9UTE wrote:
Ford U.S. don't need to buy from Oz. Ford racing already had a supercharger kit for this engine before we did and it's better than the little 1900 thing we have and it's intercooled!


A kit? As on one you or I can buy over the counter and just bolt on?

Or a proper fully developed, duribility tested and warranted engine in a complete car you and I can buy at a dealership?
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:58 pm 
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both, but for the car you need a very deep pocket
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:28 am 
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Troy wrote:
both, but for the car you need a very deep pocket


And a another pocket just as deep to convert the car to RHD and get it registered over here.
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:31 am 
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arm79 wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
Where is the 50% difference?


I said nearly. My understanding is its basically the block, heads, valve train and sump that are the same as the donor engine. Crank, pistons, rods, valves and manifolds are all custom to suit Miami. And they have a lower compression ratio than the standard engine

XR9UTE wrote:
Ford U.S. don't need to buy from Oz. Ford racing already had a supercharger kit for this engine before we did and it's better than the little 1900 thing we have and it's intercooled!


A kit? As on one you or I can buy over the counter and just bolt on?

Or a proper fully developed, duribility tested and warranted engine in a complete car you and I can buy at a dealership?


I think you'll find the crank, rods are the same in spite of what they say. Of course the manifold is custom...they didn't use the Ford racing job which, by the way is C.A.R.B legal(so more stringent emissions regs than here)
It's a kit but before it goes in car you have to develop the combo on an engine so what's the difference?. So why do it again in australia unless it's just to satisfy local input requirements? Or at least why not use it and develop it further instead of re-inventing the wheel?
The U.S aren't going to buy the whole car so why would they care about our development of supercharged coyote...they already have one!?
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:19 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
arm79 wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
Where is the 50% difference?


I said nearly. My understanding is its basically the block, heads, valve train and sump that are the same as the donor engine. Crank, pistons, rods, valves and manifolds are all custom to suit Miami. And they have a lower compression ratio than the standard engine

XR9UTE wrote:
Ford U.S. don't need to buy from Oz. Ford racing already had a supercharger kit for this engine before we did and it's better than the little 1900 thing we have and it's intercooled!


A kit? As on one you or I can buy over the counter and just bolt on?

Or a proper fully developed, duribility tested and warranted engine in a complete car you and I can buy at a dealership?


I think you'll find the crank, rods are the same in spite of what they say. Of course the manifold is custom...they didn't use the Ford racing job which, by the way is C.A.R.B legal(so more stringent emissions regs than here)
It's a kit but before it goes in car you have to develop the combo on an engine so what's the difference?. So why do it again in australia unless it's just to satisfy local input requirements? Or at least why not use it and develop it further instead of re-inventing the wheel?
The U.S aren't going to buy the whole car so why would they care about our development of supercharged coyote...they already have one!?



The way things are looking, if Ford actually still want a V8 in Aus it will be a CARB legal motor. None of this local content rules s**t that's had us behind the 8 ball for so long.
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:24 pm 
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looks like the XR8 will make a return but not untill 2012 (which to me is just to far away)


http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011/la ... away-23412
words - Joshua Dowling

Ford's performance icon will be back, but not in a hurry

The homegrown hero for middle Australia -- the Ford Falcon XR8 performance sedan -- is still on track to return to local showrooms, but it may not arrive this year.
According to senior Ford sources, the XR8 program has been delayed slightly and may get pushed back into 2012.
Ford Australia is yet to confirm which engine will power the reborn XR8 sedan but the Carsales Network understands that the most likely option is a non-supercharged version of the highly-regarded 5.0-litre V8 that powers the Mustang.
This makes the most financial and logistical sense given the extra cost involved in adding a supercharger at Ford Performance Vehicles.
A decision to go with a naturally aspirated 5.0-litre V8 also gives Ford and FPV a handy price and marketing gap between the XR8 and GS and GT supercharged Falcon models.
"We have no further comment to make about XR8 other than when we dropped it last year we were pleasantly surprised by the feedback from customers and dealers who genuinely didn't want it to go," said Ford Australia spokeswoman Sinead McAlary. "Obviously we are in the business of keeping customers happy and we're looking at our options at a possible re-introduction of this vehicle."
Meanwhile Ford insiders say that the 5.0-litre without a supercharger is quicker than the old 5.4-litre V8 despite being smaller in capacity.
The XR8 was dropped at the end of June last year after new emissions rules came into effect in Australia. Ford could have updated the engine to meet the new rules but this was deemed too expensive.
Ford initially made the decision to drop the XR8 altogether and leave the V8 business to its performance car partner, FPV. But an 11th hour decision saw the XR8 program revived after strong feedback from Ford fans and dealers
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:00 am 
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ah cool.
seems like ford aus have some people trauling thru forums readin what people say.
and i hope they read this:
bring back the v8 and fukn keep it or ill buy som crap holden and try kill myself in it. :lol:

 

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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:00 pm 
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well after much thinking and looking at what you get for what $ and a great deal to boot
i just brought a New FG XR8 2010 from QLD, unrego'd for $35,400
got transport on truck through a company we use for $1000 then pits and stamp duty in WA for about $2000
so for a new ute in WA for $38,400 which kicks a** on the price of ones over here,
they want $42,000 drive away over here on a new one :roll: and second hand ones are still from $35,000 to $44,000 and they are 08-09 models with 10,000km to 50,000kms
just couldnt spend $52,000 on a GS ute
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 Post subject: Re: wait for the New XR8 to come back or a GS ute
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:48 pm 
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to keep it simple, my brother had a BA xr8 ute with tune, cams, intake and exhaust which was awesome but sold it for a GS ute and put just a flash tune and it made an extra 109rwkw to i think 370rwkw!!! it would flog his old ute.... but he had to upgrade the brakes to alcon stuff. It regulary beats a mates ve ss with cams and isn't as common
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