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What Does 2V, 3V and 4V Refer To? 

 

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 Post subject: What Does 2V, 3V and 4V Refer To?
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:47 pm 
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Hi crew,

I'm a big fan of the 6 cylinder engine, but have neglected to learn much about most of the Ford V8's.

This is just for interest's sake, but what is the term 2V, 3V and 4V in reference to? Surely it's not how many valves a head has?

Also what is the 'crossover' pipe for in a V8 exhaust? It's usually a piece of pipe welded between the two primaries before the mufflers. What is it's purpose?

What are the obvious differences between the Cleveland and Windsor engines? Is it that one engine has a more narrow angle than the other?

There were a few other V8 related questions i was going to ask about, but i can't remember at the moment, maybe they'll come to me soon.

Thank's in advance for any light you can shed on this subject!

Cheers - Matt :wink:
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:53 am 
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Quote:
This is just for interest's sake, but what is the term 2V, 3V and 4V in reference to? Surely it's not how many valves a head has?


Yup indeed it is.



Quote:
Also what is the 'crossover' pipe for in a V8 exhaust? It's usually a piece of pipe welded between the two primaries before the mufflers. What is it's purpose?


To equalise the pressure between the two pipes. It also adds a bit more volume as well.



Quote:
What are the obvious differences between the Cleveland and Windsor engines? Is it that one engine has a more narrow angle than the other?


The windsor is narrower than the Clevo.


I'll let the experts elaborate more on the issue. :wink:

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:18 am 
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schnoods wrote:
Quote:
This is just for interest's sake, but what is the term 2V, 3V and 4V in reference to? Surely it's not how many valves a head has?


Yup indeed it is.


so 2V, 3V, and 4V are refering to the number of valves per cylinder is that right????
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:25 am 
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The 2V, 3V etc in new engines refers to valves per cyl usually, but in old engines it refers to Venturi.

The 4V Clevo doesn't have 4 valves per cyl, it was called 4V because it was released with a 4 barrel carb, 2V had 2 barrel carb.
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:43 am 
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What walker said plus....
289/302 = 8.2" deck height
302/351C = 9.2" deck height
351W = 9.5" deck height
They are all 90degree Vee.
Windsors have inline valve heads and Clevelands have canted valve heads.
So in fact the 351W is wider than a 351C it's only that the large canted valve head on the Cleveland makes it appear wider. 289/302's appear narrow because of their very short deck height.
I wish I had a dollar for everytime someone says that 289/302's have a 60 degree Vee....I'd be a friggin billionare! 8-)
btw a 400C or 351M have a 10.2" deck height.
The balance pipe(or X-pipe) in an exhaust system brings all of the exhaust pulses together which helps better scavenge the exhaust usually resulting in a torque increase and sometimes a power increase and generally makes for a smoother less harsh sound.

Pete.
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:50 pm 
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XR9UTE wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for everytime someone says that 289/302's have a 60 degree Vee....I'd be a friggin billionare! 8-)


LOL, i hear ya on that one.... So many guys still believe that Pete, no matter how many times you tell them.
I was argueing with a knob at the pub about that last year, mind you he also believed the Holden V8 Supercars were running the 5.7!
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:07 pm 
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Walker wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for everytime someone says that 289/302's have a 60 degree Vee....I'd be a friggin billionare! 8-)


LOL, i hear ya on that one.... So many guys still believe that Pete, no matter how many times you tell them.
I was argueing with a knob at the pub about that last year, mind you he also believed the Holden V8 Supercars were running the 5.7!


Ahh yes it's funny how they do that....they don't like it when you tell them it's got a Ford nine inch and Ford front suspension and that oldsmobile small block is almost a direct copy of a Ford 302!
The funniest one I heard was at an All Ford Day once. I guy looking at my mates F-series EFI351w powered XA superbird proclaimed to his gonad mates; "That's one of those 351 308's!"
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:26 pm 
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the 2v also came out with a 4 barrel carb as well. the term 3v is not a ford head but an after market head. it uses the 4v heads valves which are much larger than the 2v and uses the 2v ports which are much smaller than a 4v which gives better low to mid range torque. both heads also had closed and open camber bowls.
289w-302w and 351w are basically the same. how ever the deck hight in the 351w is much higher approx 1 inch the bottom end is different but cams can be inter changed between the two but the 351w uses a different firing order than the 302w as it uses a larger main bearing it fires 1 then 5 which also gives approx 20hp by memory cant remember firing order of the 302w.
the use of a exhaust cross over helps to balance the impluse between both banks which makes the engine smother, if you use an X pipe this gives a much better exhaust savange and adds depending on engine proformance of a 15 plus hp gain
hope this helps
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 Post subject: Re: What Does 2V, 3V and 4V Refer To?
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:29 pm 
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fordman351 wrote:
Hi crew,

I'm a big fan of the 6 cylinder engine, but have neglected to learn much about most of the Ford V8's.

This is just for interest's sake, but what is the term 2V, 3V and 4V in reference to? Surely it's not how many valves a head has?

Also what is the 'crossover' pipe for in a V8 exhaust? It's usually a piece of pipe welded between the two primaries before the mufflers. What is it's purpose?

What are the obvious differences between the Cleveland and Windsor engines? Is it that one engine has a more narrow angle than the other?

There were a few other V8 related questions i was going to ask about, but i can't remember at the moment, maybe they'll come to me soon.

Thank's in advance for any light you can shed on this subject!

Cheers - Matt :wink:


amazing what one can find on google.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cleveland_engine

"The Ford 335 engine family were a group of small-block V8 engines built by the Ford Motor Company between 1970 and 1982. The series was nicknamed Cleveland after the Cleveland, Ohio engine plant in which most were cast. The 335 was designed as a mid-sized engine to replace the larger members of the Windsor small-block family as well as the mid-sized FE V8 family. Both of these engine families continued in production, however, with the Cleveland only outliving the FE by a half-decade and eventually abandoned in favor of the more compact Windsor design."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Windsor_engine

"The Windsor engine is a 90-degree small-block V8 from Ford Motor Company. It was introduced in 1962, replacing the old Ford Y-block engine. Though not all of the engines in this family were produced at the Windsor, Ontario engine plant (all Ford small blocks came from Cleveland, Ohio until 1966), the name stuck. The mid-sized 335 "Cleveland" V8, introduced in 1970, was to replace the larger Windsors, but this design ended up outliving its replacement. In 1991, the Windsor engine began to be phased out and replaced with Ford's new 4.6 L modular V8 engine, which was disliked by many because of the overhead cam valvetrain as opposed to the more traditional "muscle car-ish" pushrod V8 with overhead valves that Chevy stuck with in their GM LS engine line. In 1996, Ford replaced the popular 5.0 L pushrod V8 with the 4.6 L in their flagship vehicle, the Ford Mustang."


have fun reading

cheers

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:40 pm 
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The 351W had the largest main bearings fitted to a small block ( 3" ), even larger than the 351C ( 2.5" ). 2V cyl heads had smaller ports, and the 4V heads had large ports, $v's usually found on GT's, like the Phase 3 HO, and XA RPO 83's, and the odd XB GT with all the options. It causes more confusion than it solves, 2V & 4V. This only refers to Clevo's.

 

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 Post subject: Re: What Does 2V, 3V and 4V Refer To?
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:04 pm 
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FPV_GTp wrote:
amazing what one can find on google.com


I realise i could have done a bit of searching around, but it thought it might have been useful to people who know little about Ford V8's, not just myself. Good info there, i'm learning little bits as i go, i should be an engineer by the end of the week :D

Thankyou to everyone who has contributed :wink:
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:07 pm 
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and dont forget that ford aslo brough out on the xy a 2v version of the 250ci six with a removalable inlet manifold. it was called the 250 2v
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 Post subject: Re: What Does 2V, 3V and 4V Refer To?
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:01 pm 
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fordman351 wrote:
FPV_GTp wrote:
amazing what one can find on google.com


I realise i could have done a bit of searching around, but it thought it might have been useful to people who know little about Ford V8's, not just myself. Good info there, i'm learning little bits as i go, i should be an engineer by the end of the week :D

Thankyou to everyone who has contributed :wink:


Happy you liked the info , i wasn't having a go at you , it is just amazing all the information that is out in the world wide web WWWDOTCOM

http://www.panteraplace.com/page35.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/parts/parts02.html

http://www.classicmustang.com/casting_numbers.htm

http://reviews.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford ... 0001410755

http://home.comcast.net/~jelerath/musta ... ks-fr.html

http://www.fordification.com/engineID.htm

351C - heads http://home.comcast.net/~jelerath/musta ... ds-fr.html



good luck fordman351

cheers

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:01 pm 
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2V 3V 4V http://www.chiheads.com/cylinder_heads_ford.php

http://www.airflowdynamics.com.au/

These two guys would have to be one of the best cleveland designed cylinder heads NOW in the world

Since SVO stop producing cleveland alloy heads.

Roush and and a few other guys are making heads still.

there is also another guy here in Sydney Australia producing cleveland cylinder heads , have heard much about them.

People will get into arguemnets which head is better but remember one thing application of the heads.

There both producing large amounts of horse power from both the CHI and AFD heads that are out in the market place.

I have a set of 351c closed chamber cast iron 4V dot heads of a ex pro-stock ford race car back in the early and midd 1980's producing 800Bhp@9000 to 10000 RPM this car was very competitive against the chevy guys back then. The amount of R&D that the heads had done to them now days you can practically buy a set of CHI or AFD heads for very little money and have vast amounts of horse power .



have fun reading

cheers

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:25 am 
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stevegt wrote:
and dont forget that ford aslo brough out on the xy a 2v version of the 250ci six with a removalable inlet manifold. it was called the 250 2v

Again, it comes down to "Venturi", 2V were 2 barrel carbs.

Even the XD had 4V on the air cleaner, it was only a 2V engine with a 4 barrel carb.
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