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what should this cost? 

 

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 Post subject: what should this cost?
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:19 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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folks im considering a bit of work to my el xr8 but i want to weigh up what it would cost to modify my engine (165,000) vs just pulling it out and putting it aside and putting in an AU XR8 II or III engine.

what should a good condition low KM version of these cost? XR8 series two or three? (long motor with intake manifold, TB MAF no extractors)

thanks
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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:04 pm 
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Just mod the original motor. 165k for a Windsor is nothing!

 

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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:39 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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any ideas guys, has anyone bougth one recently? what would it cost to get it fit also? (weigh it us vs. time off work)
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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:09 pm 
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vortec or big single/twin garret turbo's.... :lol:

 

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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:29 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Better off to buy a stock 175kw au v8, rebuild it with a cam and clean up the heads.It would be pretty much a 220 kw spec long motor but without the pricetag :D
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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:13 pm 
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milo 302 wrote:
Better off to buy a stock 175kw au v8, rebuild it with a cam and clean up the heads.It would be pretty much a 220 kw spec long motor but without the pricetag :D


The heads and induction are where power is made and the 220kW heads are not the same as earlier GT40P heads. The 220kW heads got bigger valves, some basic port work, roller rockers and bigger throttle body. If you add the cost of these items and machining processes to the cost of the 175kW AU V8 you will be spending more than buying a 220kW engine in the first place.

 

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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Which is why i said pretty much a 220kw long motor, not exactly, pretty much... :shock:
It doesnt have manifolds, t/b etc, front dress blah blah, just the bottom end and heads.
Which is why i said what i said.
Tickfords porting sucks anyhow 8-)
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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:28 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yella Terra did the porting on the 220 heads not Tickford

 

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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:06 am 
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67RCE wrote:
Yella Terra did the porting on the 220 heads not Tickford

I was just referring to the quality of the cnc machining they did on the heads thats all. :D
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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:45 am 
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You cant really call it porting, they basically just cleaned up some of the dags.

 

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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:50 pm 
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milo 302 wrote:
Which is why i said pretty much a 220kw long motor, not exactly, pretty much... :shock:
It doesnt have manifolds, t/b etc, front dress blah blah, just the bottom end and heads.
Which is why i said what i said.
Tickfords porting sucks anyhow 8-)


The 175kW AU engine is much closer in specs to a standard E7 headed engine than the 220kW. The only things different between a standard E7 headed engine and the 175kW AU engine is the GT40P heads and the explorer intake. These are good heads and intake, don't get me wrong. There is a definite power advantage to be had using these.

But the 220kW engines also got larger diameter Ferrea stainless valves, stiffer springs, match porting, roller rockers, a bigger cam, SPS rod bolts, SPS main cap bolts & the induction was better with either a 65mm (series 2 XR8) or 70mm (series 2 XR8) TB & EGR plate.

If you wanted to bring the standard AU V8 long engine up to this spec you would easily spend over $1500, probably over $2k. Why bother?

TUF250 the original poster has an EL (assume series 1) so also needs a better intake and TB than the HO & 60mm that was fitted standard.

Sorry, all these differences are not "pretty much the same" as you suggest.

If I was looking for a replacement engine for my EL I would try and find a series 3 AU XR8 engine or if they are too expensive then a late series 2 AU XR8 engine with 65mm TB but fitted with the Yella Terra (rather than Crane) roller rockers. Quite a few came out like this and got the 220kW cam.

Fitting is straight forward. The EL balancer and front dress needs to be swapped over (t/c doesn't). The vacuum lines from the intake need a little fangling, but then it's just a straight swap.

Price I don't know as I'm in NZ.

 

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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Sturmovik wrote:
You cant really call it porting, they basically just cleaned up some of the dags.


Why are you the only one who agrees with me :D
The stock 175 kw 40p heads arent that bad porting wise, i barely needed to touch the intake ports(only the short side radius) And the exhaust only need the thermactor divet cleaned up and also the short side radius.
I only needed a cheap set of $1 grinding stones from the markets, and my $20 die grinder, probably saved myself around a grand doing it myself(so ive been told on here) :D
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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:33 pm 
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So the actual question about what this should cost??

Im looking to do exactly the same thing (read 220kx into EL XR8) and have been lucky (or so I think) to pick up a 220kw motor for just over a grand. Now providing the transplant is as straight forward as everyone is explaining, (although a new set of headers seems to be a must if you wanna access the plugs and custom extractors aint cheap :wink: ?) then the real cost will come in trying to wire the motor into the original EL loom. I have been quoted as much as three grand for someone to do it but have advice that it can be done cheaper.

so tallying it all up as a worst case scenario, if the motors say $1500 and $2000 auto sparky work, would the $3,500 be better spent on the standard 185kw motor to bring it up to the same if not better specs and is that achievable for that money??

This appears to be the million dollar question?????? :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:41 pm 
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A cheaper alternative to the custom extractors is to run EL V8 style extractors and use Iridium plugs. The Iridium plugs have a 100,000 mile guarantee, which is 160,000k's before they might need changing. The car will probably be sold before this distance is covered.

The electrical work is really very simple. Swap over all the EL fuel injection system except the injectors ie. TFI distributor, TFI coil, IAT, ECT, EGR, EVPS, TPS(s), EVS, Can purge solenoid. Swap the electronic box from the EL MAF to the AU3 MAF housing. You can do all this yourself for nothing more than your time and maybe some intake gaskets. Use a set of injector plug adapters (from Ebay, around $35 someone posted recently) to change the injector plugs from EV1 to EV6 style plugs. Get a J3 chip (EL GT) from Jason and run it on your existing ecu, then get a full dyno run done and send this back to Jason who can then modify your chip to suit. The cost should be under a grand all-up including the Iridiums and dyno run.

If you modify the original 185kW engine you will need - complete heads, injectors, TB, MAF, custom J3 chip, dyno tune and you will probably also want roller rockers.

Mathematically the question becomes (because the other items cancel out as they are required for both options)

If (220kW engine cost - value of EL engine) < (Cost of complete heads + injectors + TB + MAF + roller rockers) then the complete engine is probably the best way to go if it's in good condition.

Just a couple of things to note about the 220's I've rebuilt. They are hard on valve guides and the retainers are a poor fit on the springs. I replace the springs, retainers & locks and K-line the guides as a matter of course when I rebuild a 220kW engine.

 

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 Post subject: Re: what should this cost?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Thanks for that xafalcon. Tuf250..hope you dont mind me using your thread but we had a very similar question :D ?

So it sounds like you've worked on the 220 motors a few times. The motor ive purchased had 90,000kms or thereabouts so the replacements valve guides etc are a must? anything else you'd recomend while the motors out?

And secondly.... using the EL ecu, maf, dizzy etc wont affect the overall performance of the motor once its been tuned? I was concerned that not using the au coil packs etc would mean not getting the full performance from the motor?

cheers
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