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XE 302 cleveland... need some help please 

 

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 Post subject: XE 302 cleveland... need some help please
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:12 am 
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hi all
i have just bought an XE with a 302 cleveland and C4 in it...
basically i bought it for a couple of hundred bucks and its my new project toy...
plans so far are to minispool the diff and fit 4.11 gears...
but i need help/ideas on making the motor much more powerfull...
i have heard of fitting 351 cranks but that raises the compression too much??? and does anyone know how much a supercharger kit might cost ???
also i was thinking (thinking... not planning) about putting a 460 in... do they fit??? and are they worth it...
i plan on using this car for drags... i dont think i will rego it so fuel consumption doesnt matter...
anybody got any ideas on what they think would make this go better>???
cheers
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:39 am 
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oh and i am also toying with the idea of twin or big single turbo... with the twins i could run rb25 turbos and have some manifolds made.. or use a big single and remote mount... hmmm just thinking out loud...
cheers
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:44 am 
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Well if it's going to be for drag only then spool is fine, don't use one on the street though.

Work with your budget, you have too many ideas floating and don't know what to do, work out how much you want to spend.
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:41 pm 
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fair enuff...
i want to build a forced 351...
what i would like to know is how would i go about making my 302 a 351 that has around 9 : 1 compression such that it is suitable for forced induction.
i have heard of people using a 351 crank with the 302 rods and pistons but this makes the compression fairly high...
what if i were to use a 351 crank??? what pistons and rods would people suggest ( bearing in mind i want to force feed it) ???
i have read that some people are using 6 inch chevy rods... are there off the shelf pistons that would match or would i need to go custom???
cheers
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:44 pm 
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as far as spending... im an apprentice... i dont want to pay s**t loads for everything... that is why i want to know of combinations people have used...
i have seen 351 crank rods and pistons on the net for like $1200 is this about right or dodgy sh*t???
i want the car to run low 12's if possible...
remembering that i dont want it for street driving so anything that will make it run low 12's or high 11's i'de like to know about
cheers
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:08 pm 
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hay mate to bad you live over east otherwize when i come to perth in 6 weeks i could of brought a turbo and all the pipe work home made off a*** for $400 that just got unbolted off a landou 351 clevo it doesnt look pretty but it does the job and it has the cam as well but one tooth has been snapped off but its the cam that run with it so you could get a matchand it has the pistons and conrods to but one piston and rod missing due to a bit of a cotastrofy lol

 

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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:38 pm 
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so you have a turbo and manifold off a 351...???
interesting (scratches chin...) dont suppose you want to post it ???
what do you mean by in 6 weeks where you at now???
cheers
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:23 pm 
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im in western pilbara place called paraburdoo im taking my car to perth to take it to kwinana motorplex to have a race and i want to get it on the dyno to see what she can do should be ready to turn the key in 4 weeks also getting a boot install and stereo when im in perth even no you probably wont hear it over the massive solid roller cam i have lol

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:26 am 
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A 351 crank & rods should only be about $300, if you want low compression get a set of open chamber heads as well. I wouldn't bother with forced induction, you should get into 12's with a half decent N/A rebuild.
I would say you would be looking at around $6000 minimum to get a reliable 400+Hp.
Short motor will set you back about $3500 with forged pistons. Heads are what makes the power so budget about $2000, then comes all your valve train, carby and manifold.
Then after all this you have the tranny, diff and exhaust to worry about, power doesn't come cheap.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:07 pm 
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i know... i used to own a turbo 4.1 XF... and an r32... lol
but yer i know it wont be cheap i figured the heads wouldnt be AS important on a forced motor due to the forced air not needing as much flow in the heads... or am i wrong here???
$6000 aint that bad for 400 hp
i thought people liked to use 302 rods for some reason... ???
cheers
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:35 pm 
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My 351 so far owes me over $3000 and counting. Will end up around $4500 by the time i'm finished...
Dont start on a motor untill you've got a plan, and all the cash your gonna need to get it to where it needs to go.
S/H 351 crank will usually set you back about $300.
I see you've been on ebay looking at new 351 cranks with chev be journals. The most cost effective way for you may be to purchase a complete stroker kit, crank rods brgs pistons and gaskets.
Run a small solid cam. 302 heads. and NEW valves. STD Ford valves are crap!
$5000-6000 is about what you'll end up spending + Carby, extractors, exhaust, g-box, diff....

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:58 am 
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I am using 302 rods in my new 351 build, the problem with these are the limited choice of pistons, i could only find hypereutectics but apparently ACL now make a forged version. The 302 rod in theory reduces the side loading on the piston and increases dwell time at tdc, and with the short deck piston i think you save about 60grams per rod/piston. (They dont produce any more static compression)
The heads aren't as crucial to make moderate forced power, but when they are ported appropriately some serious gains can be achieved.
My new engine should make about 450Hp at about 6500-7000 rpm, still running it in, so most of the cost was getting parts strong enough to take this. I reckon you could save a few grand skimping on parts and still make as much power, but you would want to cross your fingers everytime you let it rip.
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:15 am 
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Using a 351 crank does not increase compression. The pistons you use determine what comp you have depending on what head you use.
Hypatec make a Forged piston for 302 rods with a 351 crank. I use them in my cleveland with a small dish machined into them for 10.5:1 with the CHI 185 heads I use.

Pete.
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:33 pm 
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My pistons are Hypatec, unless they have released a new version in the last couple of months, it is definately a cast piston. They call them liquid forged which is a BS term for pressure cast.
A 351 is going to have heaps more compression than a 302 using the same heads and flat tops (~11-1).
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:25 pm 
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Hypatec have two versions. I previously had the cast version in my iron headed cleveland. The Forged version came out early last year...I waited 3 months for it. They're about $600 a set and come with circlips for floating pins. The hypereutectic cast job is much cheaper at around $250 a set.

Cheers,
Pete.
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